OSCAR
SYMPOSIUM
with
your host Nathaniel
and six very special guests
February 2008
Our Seven Participants
day one / day two / day three
previous pageday three
TIM: Well then. So here it is: I quite liked Juno, even while being driven up the wall and back down again by its main character. Does that strike you as a milquetoast fudge? Or am I just the hater here even when I'm the quite-liker? I'll just say that I think Cody's script is unerringly better when she's writing lines for everyone else, but in the case of Juno herself I'm reminded of the worst sarky excesses of Joss Whedon when he's got a kick-ass heroine in the driver's seat. Plus, I have to admit to a fair quantity of residual Hard Candy annoyance with the hugely talented but dangerously mannered Ellen Page -- the fact that she's working that whole Red Riding Hood thing again right out of the gate was not a good omen. I'm with Nick that the writing and that performance improve drastically as we enter the second half, but I still find it hard to disagree with a lot of Kim and Dennis's points in the movie's disfavour. Dennis is dead right that the filmmakers just don't seem very interested in what pregnancy might feel like: it's presented as a caper, an opportunity for wisecracks, not a condition. Fo shizz, it lacks weight. But I really liked the ensemble acting, and the movie as a whole (ignoring those intensely annoying songs) was a pleasant surprise in a lot of ways. It's not a big problem for me that Cera's character is left on the margins, either: I don't think that's dissing fatherhood or neglecting a valuable (cast) member so much as semi-realistically acknowledging the way a lot of teenage pregnancies actually play out. It's hardly Waitress.
Non-shock of the day: I still dig Sweeney Todd, I still dig the admittedly puny-voiced Helena (a Corpse Bridesmaid in this year's race?), and Nick's forgetting Alan Rickman's book collection.
As for Laura Linney: let there be love. I'm getting round to it...
DENNIS: I hadn't thought about the Hard Candy- Little Red Riding Hood connection, but that's a really good observation. Can we (as Reitman probably did) call that homage, or is it a cheap shortcut? What's interesting about Juno to me is the degree to which I disliked it compared to the general composure and quality of its cast. That it annoyed me beyond my capacity for loving the likes of J.K. Simmons, Allison Janney, Jennifer Garner, Jason Bateman and Michael Cera really knocked me on my plentiful ass.
And what of Sweeney Todd? I really am compelled to see it again, because I felt so strongly about it when I saw it-- I was fairly wowed-- especially by the comportment of Depp and Bonham carter as non-singers. I still like it a lot, but it has not stuck with me the way some of Burton's other movies, even something like the stylistically similar Sleepy Hollow did, and I want to see it again to see if my previous passion is renewed. Something else: Has it been anyone else's experience that the more one likes Burton's film, the less likely one is to be familiar with the source material? I'm speaking sincerely as someone who had never seen any form of the musical before encountering Burton's version. Yet the movie seems as likely to be hated as loved by those who have strong memories of the Broadway show. Participating in discussions, or even resading reviews by these learned folks tends to make me feel like a musical philistine as well as a simple gore hound. And I'm with you, Tim-- there's something about Helena Bonham Carter in ghoul mode-- and I include Fight Club in this-- that I find intensely, um... likeable. Did she live up to billing when you saw her in the flesh?
NATHANIEL: Wait, Tim. Was I reading you right. You're claiming that Juno McGuff's pregnancy is actually a McGuffin? (I kill myself)
Dennis: As for Sweeney Todd. It was a fast fade for me, as well. I blame my initial near rave on the heaving sigh of relief that it wasn't the embarassment that I feared it would be (Sondheim fanatic right here) but the further I got away from it the more I returned to my casting phase anger that people --directors, stars, public, crazed Johnny Depp internet trolls, other- still don't get how crucial musical talent is to making classic musicals. Sweeney Todd is a good sit but it just can't be definitive. They didn't nail the music and it's a freaking musical. Now, I love Helena Bonham-Carter in general. As Mrs. Lovett not as much. But this is bothering me: why is it that her real life director lovers (Kenneth Branagh then Tim Burton) love to mutilate her onscreen. It's not right. I've referred to her ghoulish eroticism as "beautiful decay" in the past but why do they wanna rush straight through to her autopsy? I'd rather be buried in Bonham-Carter's ample bosom than watch her buried, wouldn't you?
So, yes. Let's let our collective camera track away from both girls not yet women (Briony & Juno) who've hogged the conversation and find some actual women, self-actualized or otherwise, to discuss. I'm really not trying to be a control freak. Please don't think playing Lazarus to your Rae and chaining y'all up to my own radiator --it's just that I really do love talking about the ladies and you can be so unruly when you have free reign.
That said, this chain has a lot of give in it, I promise. A few questions with the "Best" women in mind to engage with or ignore. Shouldn't Laura Linney (The Savages) play every male movie star's sister until she wins the Oscar? As much as I love the concept isn't it a little obvious to have a woman play Dylan during his most androgynous phase in I'm Not There? And, no offense to Blanchett who is terrific in the movie, but wouldn't that stunt have gotten anyone nominated? Why is the mimicry of Edith Piaf deemed Oscar worthy for Marion Cotillard but the mimicry of Disney princesses not for Amy Adams? And finally, why is there still such a double standard for female actors. Nicole Kidman was obviously deemed too chilly and unlikeable for an awards run in Margot at the Wedding but nobody complained that Johnny Depp wasn't warm enough in Sweeney Todd or that Daniel Day-Lewis's Plainview didn't have enough "heart" or what not. The way I see it Margot is just as scary as either of those fellows, psychologically speaking.
SASHA: Well first off -- we just have to accept the fact that there is a double standard for women. There just is. But hey, we get our revenge by being able to survive longer. We were cursed from the beginning with the mini-dick which requires vigorous application. But on to actresses, I must take issue with Cate Blanchett as Dylan and the ludicrous suggestion (by Billy Bush) that "all she did was play a man." It wasn't Blanchett's portrayal of a man that was so impressive; it was how she nailed Dylan so purely and convincingly. Admittedly, you would only really know just how good it was if you knew every tiny detail about Dylan, as I do, but trust me - she had the fidgets, the walk - even the way he didn't brush his teeth or clip his fingernails. I was stunned by her genius with detail.
Speaking of women characters, why is it that some actresses are destined to be nominated but never win? In this category, I would put Laura Linney who, like Kate Winslet, is always good, always likable, always doing her best work but yet, there is always someone else who has all of the love in town. My theory about Laura Linney is that she's as close as an American actress can get to being British without being British. Here are five bits of advice to Ms. Linney is she ever expects to win an Oscar:
1. Play a dirty, dirty whore who does something heroic, like taking in a man off the streets and nurturing him back into society. He then dumps her because she's a dirty, dirty whore and we feel sorry for her. She wins her Oscar for her final scene where she confronts her lover at a party with makeup smeared down her face. "But I loved you for you," she says. Of course, her lover returns and woos her back into his life.
2. She plays a single mother with no health insurance caring for a kid dying of cancer. No makeup, dark circles under eyes but she wins her Oscar for the scene where she must drag her child to the emergency room because he's gone into a coma.
3. She plays a drug addicted rock star, sings her own songs and wins her Oscar for the scene where she confronts her audience stone cold sober.
4. She gains thirty pounds to play a lonely school teacher on a quest for true love and wins her Oscar when at last she sheds the thirty pounds and makes the men who rejected her eat their hearts out.
5. She plays a real life criminal or murderess and wins her Oscar when she has her breakdown scene in the courtroom, "I did it! I did it! Is that what you want to hear?!"In short, Ms. Linney needs to step out of her comfort zone thoroughly if she ever hopes to win.
DENNIS: Don't forget prosthetic make-up! Maybe Linney is perceived as being the same because same always looks the same (Okay, the hair was a little more dishwatery brown in The Savages than usual, but you know what I mean.) Nicole Kidman and Charlize Theron do not seem to me to be shaping up like Oscar perennials, and they went in there and grabbed the gold for making their glamorous selves look plain and or outright ugly. This is a strategy that can work for men too, especially if your director chooses black-and-white-- it did the trick for John Hurt and Robert De Niro, and perhaps Peter Bogdanovich should have stuck with the Paper Moon/Last Picture Show feel for Mask -- might have changed Eric Stoltz's career.
But someone like Linney does not strike me as the Oscar baiting type. On each of her nominations (How many does she have? Three?) reports of her reaction to being nominated seem genuine in their surprise-- I really don't think she much cares if she gets nominated or wins. Oh, all right, scratch that-- I guess I can't really imagine any actor being so above it all that they wouldn't care one way or the other. Maybe she just seems better at handling the circus aspect of the whole thing. She carries herself admirably and she's not ever going to be one to look to for histrionics, this year or any other, when she loses. And she will lose this year, to the deserving Julie Christie, or quite possibly to (sigh) Ellen Page. (My nominee, Carice van Houten, will be nowhere near the Kodak Theater on February 24.) So, to paraphrase Ron Burgundy, stay classy, Ms. Linney, and leave the rubber noses to someone else. Oscar might need you, but you don't need him.
KIM: Oh Sasha, I'm with you on this one. Blanchett nailed Dylan in all his underfed, sped-up, cynical, clever, Warhol slumming, Pennebaker glory. And I LOVE that you mentioned the teeth and fingernails detail -- it's those little things in addition to the more obvious exactitude of her mannerisms, voice, walk and demeanor. This is not mere imitation; it's a work of shape shifting brilliance.
And to hell with those saying she’s just playing a man! The picture *benefits* from a woman (or rather a woman like Blanchett) playing Dylan. I'm sure Haynes didn’t use her for mere gimmick – no way. Her slinky, twitchy performance only intensifies the androgynous sexuality of Dylan, particularly during this time period. She tapped into Dylan’s exciting combination of seductiveness and selfishness, the kind of behavior that made so many desire, follow and hate him – often all at once. When you watch that scene in Don't Look Back, when Dylan taps on his typewriter, completely disinterested in his "lover" Joan Baez warbling for attention, you see that Blanchett didn’t just imitate Dylan, she studied what made him so maddeningly mysterious and so incredibly wanted. This prickly, charming but sometimes frightening young man oozing so much charisma that you can’t help but fall in love with him – and for all kinds of curious reasons. Blanchett's Dylan had me all buzzing and thrilled (“fuzzy and buzzy” as Baby Doll would say). I don’t think people bring this up enough, but Blanchett’s performance is spectacularly sexy.
And WTF… Billy Bush? As if I care what he thinks but really, he was probably just confused that Bob Dylan turned him on more than Nancy O’ Dell.
Next Page
In which Nick praises the "bigness" of Marion Cotillard in La Vie En Rose, Tim falls hard for Savage Laura Linney
