Two Women. Two Questions
Monday, May 25, 2015 at 7:20PM 
First a Question For You
Have you ever been baffled or resentful of an Oscar win (any category) only to finally see the picture and go "Oh, okay. I get it" and feel sheepish about your past dismissal (even if it wouldn't quite change your vote)?
Such was the case with me and Sophia Loren's Two Women (1961) the only 1960s Best Actress win I hadn't seen, largely because I was so angry about it growing up given my intense love of Natalie Wood, who lost her best shot at the statue (Splendor in the Grass) in the peak year of her popularity (West Side Story). But when the Walter Reade screened Vittoria de Sica's Two Women this weekend I decided to fix the gap. Sophia was terrific, particularly in the final act when the movie takes quite a dark turn (in some ways it's a very strange film, a mix of lightly charming Star Vehicle, brutal Neorealism, and Melodrama)
My Turn. "Ask Nathaniel..."
Once you've answered my question in the comments, ask me one! (It should not be Sophia related. I just needed to ask you that question.) I'll answer two handfuls of your questions tomorrow night in the Q&A column.
Ready. Set. Go...
Reader Comments (43)
Good question!
Gwyneth Paltrow in Shakespeare in Love. Having been a Blanchett fan and loving Elizabeth (andevenElizabeththegoldenage - don't block me) for years, I was quite dismissive of Gwyneth's win and refused to watch it until it was on late night TV a couple of years back. I went into it expecting her to be terrible but was actually transfixed by her performance and had the "Oh, I get it now" moment. She's bubbly, delightful, elegant and I can totally (well almost) understand why she won. Much like Jennifer Lawrence I suppose, it was just her time.
I always did wonder what did you think of the Second Best Exotic Marigold Hotel as you never reviewed it?
If not, then i often find myself sitting down in Winter with a cup of tea and Gosford Park. Even if its only half an hour of it, its the perfect winter movie to have on in the rain and just enjoy Britsh acting at its finest. Who do you find to be best in show in the film? For me its always a toss-up between Maggie, Kristin and Emily. Each time I watch it, I choose someone different!
it happened to me with Spacek. It's still a shame Rowlands didn't win what should have been her third Oscar, but Spacek is terrific too.
And of course that Peck/O'Toole year. I saw Lawrence first and could not see how could anyone beat O'Toole. The I saw Peck and I understood (and today I think I'd have voted for Peck)
If we're talking about O'Toole the anger should center on 1968, the year when he lost for The Lion in Winter to Cliff Robertson in Charly. And there's no "Oh! I get it now!". Not here.
Loren's anguish is really heartbreaking. As it is also in A Very Special Day and Sunflower. I find that Marion Cotillard has the same capacity to make us feel her pain.
Martin Landau beating Sam Jackson. I believed Pulp Fiction was the best of who he is as an actor. And the material suited him better than any other actor imaginable. So for him to lose the rival performer better be in a class all to himself. Martin Landau in Ed Wood elevates a movie already operating at a high capacity for its filmmakers.
I think Paltrow is also better than she is given credit for. Tomei subverts her movie entirely though I believe other things were at play when it came to her winning for Vinny.
I bore an admittedly unfair and irrational resentment towards Helen Hunt for taking Helena Bonham-Carter's Oscar for Wings of the Dove. I still think Bonham-Carter deserves it for that astonishing performance, but after seeing Hunt in the roundtable, then watching The Sessions, I resolved to watch her performance in As Good as it Gets with as little bias as possible, and lo and behold, I get why she won. Bonham-Carter's performance is one of my all-time favourites and will never be dethroned by anyone in her category that year, but Helen Hunt gave a textured, grounding and grounded performance in a movie filled with characters (and a dog) ready to take it to the stratosphere.
My question to Nathaniel is this: does Imperator Furiosa deserve to join the ranks of Ellen Ripley and Sarah Connor T2 version in the ranks of Greatest Action Heroines ever? If so or if not, why?
I felt similarly about Loren's win over Natalie Wood that year and it did take me quite some time to catch up with the film. I'd still have given the award to Natalie, her work is searing, but Sophia's is a deserving piece of work.
The other that comes to mind is I've always felt that Greta Garbo should have won the Oscar for Camille in 1937 over Luise Rainer in The Good Earth without having seen the film but having viewed her first prize winner in The Great Ziegfeld (cough, major Category Fraud, cough). However once I finally saw the film I was blown away by how beautiful her work was, she is by far the best thing in the picture. Again I'd still go with Garbo in what I think is her best performance but it she had to lose Rainer's is a worthy win.
My question staying with the classic actresses, many of the screen tests are online for Scarlett O'Hara, obviously Vivien Leigh could not possibly be bettered but had she not appeared on the scene who do you think would have done well in the role based on the available tests and knowledge of others up for the role, for example Kate Hepburn, Bette Davis, Norma Shearer etc. I know Paulette Goddard was a hare's breath away from being cast but I've always leaned towards Joan Bennett doing well by the part.
I also would have much preferred to see Tyrone Power as Ashley, who Selznick wanted but Fox wouldn't loan out, than Leslie Howard who is the picture's weak link, he's never able to completely cover his disdain for the role.
[No shade on O'Toole's brilliance, but I've always gotten why Cliff Robertson won.]
I was really pissed when Sean Penn lost to Nicolas Cage (I don't remember why I hadn't seen Leaving Las Vegas yet), but after seeing it, I got it, although I didn't feel particularly sheepish, as I still think Penn should have won. (And we wouldn't have had the Mystic River victory over....well, any of those other four nominated performances.)
QUESTION: Which directors would you most like to see work ASAP with these performers (it can be someone new or a former collaborator): Tilda Swinton, Gugu Mbatha-Raw, Michael Fassbender & Tom Hardy?
Oooh, lovely question, Paul Outlaw. I'll answer just because I can!
Tilda Swinton - Todd Haynes all the way. Maximize stylization, I say.
Gugu Mbatha-Raw - Kathryn Bigelow, because I want to see Gugu in a role that requires steeliness, faked or genuine
Michael Fassbender - Richard Linklater, because I'd like to see Michael Fassbender as an ordinary man
Tom Hardy - Ang Lee in tragic romance mode
2007 I did this in quite a few categories. I went absolutely crazy for Juno and Into the Wild that year, and for some reason was reluctant to embrace the dual grim tales of There Will Be Blood and No Country for Old Men.
In Best Actress, I wished so hard for Ellen Page to pull an upset, even though I knew that would've been hard. However, Away From Her was just a slog and I hadn't had the chance to see La Vie en Rose. I was so angry when Marion Cotillard won. Little did I know she would become one of my favorite modern actresses and that she was totally winning in La Vie en Rose.
The pair of Emile Hirsch and Hal Holbrook had me absolutely heartbroken. I was still licking my wound from Hirsch's loss at a nomination, so I delayed seeing There Will Be Blood. I should have realized there is no beating Day Lewis. The same goes for No Country for Old Men. Despite misgivings with the film, there's no mistaking Bardem deserved it.
As for my question for you:
Looking back 10 years ago at the Oscar nominees from 2005, whose career has most surprised you in terms of their ascension? Who's career did you think would take off more following an Oscar nom? Finally, is there anyone from this lineup you would die to see have a comeback soon.
I haven't seen "Gandhi" yet and I like Ben Kingsley, but can his performance possibly be better than Dustin Hoffman's in "Tootsie"? The other best actor nominees were really great that year, too. Maybe once I see " Gandhi" I'll get the win, though.
Also, Hoffman's win for "Rain Man" several years later baffles me. I was more impressed with Tom Cruises' performance than Hoffman's. Was that a weak year? Or was it a makeup for "Tootsie"? He already had the Oscar for " Kramer" so it's not like he was overdue. Anyone know that story? Or am I the only one confused by that win?
Love this question! Ellen Burstyn's win in "Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore" initially stumped me before seeing the film. I thought Gena Rowlands was unbridled perfection in "A Woman Under The Influence," and she'd still probably get my vote. Burstyn excels with such naturalistic charisma in the role, which I never would've pegged her for considering her more heightened performances from the Aughts and onward. That being said, what a great year overall -- not a bad performance in the bunch!
As a Nicole Kidman fan I always feel angry for her having ONLY THREE OSCAR NOMINATIONS AND ONE WIN. I would have given her seven nominations and two wins.
Nominations - The hours, Moulin Rouge, Rabbit Hole , Margot at the wedding, The Paperboy
Two wins - To die for and Birth (she wasn't even nominated for these challenging uncomfortable roles)
(sometimes I think I would have nominated her in the supporting category for Eyes wide shut)
How about you Nathaniel? How many wins and nominations?
It took me a long time to see Geoffrey Rush in "Shine", I just did not beleive that any performance should beat Ralph Fiennes in "The English Patient". Finally I made myself watch "shine", It's more of a feel good film, and I can see it's appeal, but Fiennes is still the best IMO.
@MorganLambert - my vote goes to your question about "Gosford Park" - who is MVP?
Actually I think the real beauty of that film is that no one person is a star, it's so exquisitely balanced. But I always like Emily Watson & Kelly Macdonald. However that last scene between Helen Mirren and Eileen Atkins who plays her sister is so heart-wrenching, that I will go with Mirren as MVP. Her Oscar nomination probably set her up for her win a few years later for "The Queen".
Madonna's been on my mind lately, I can't wait for her Rebel Heart Tour to get to Vancouver!
What are your favourite Madonna performances, and which ones are your least favourite?
I know she hasn't made the wisest choices in film, but I have to admire her for trying so valiantly. Evita is definitely at the very tip top for me.
And to answer your first question, the Oscar win that baffles me the most but I feel sheepish in saying so after the fact is Julia Roberts' for Erin Brockovich. Don't get me wrong, she was absolutely amazing in it and if the Academy was going to reward her for a performance, this was the one to do it. However, I cannot let it escape my mind that Ellen Burstyn should've won for her staggeringly extraordinary work in Requiem for a Dream. That performance, in my opinion, is still the best thing I have ever seen on any kind of screen anywhere in my life. Seeing it for the first time I remember it blowing me away and then seeing it a second time just cemented it's status in my mind as a genius piece of performing.
As much as I love Cher, and I think she's a legitimately compelling actress, I used to resent that she won an Oscar for Moonstruck over Glenn Close (Fatal Attraction) and Holly Hunter (Broadcast News), both of whom are just unimpeachable. That said, Cher really is winning and certainly no slouch as Best Actress winners go.
Nat, if you could have Woody Allen give a mammoth, Blue Jasmine-caliber role to any actress who would it be? (For me it would be Angela Bassett, Elisabeth Shue or Joan Allen, but that's just me.)
I used to HATE that they gave Nicole a career Oscar (basically from the time the role was announced) for The Hours, and deprived Julianne of a win just to give Nicole one. But as that film has stayed with me over the years, much more than Far From Heaven tbh, I forgive Nicole and grant her much respect a role that enhanced the other pieces.
For Nathaniel's Q&A: What modern-day film would you have liked to see Alfred Hitchcock direct, especially if you could recast it with some of his favorite actors?
Regarding your question, this happens to me often, especially in the Best Picture category. I saw every nominee but The King's Speech in its year and cursed its win so much when it happened. I watched The King's Speech two years later and still to this day love it. A lot of the '80s Best Picture winners also apply (Ordinary People, Terms of Endearment for example). Performance-wise, I would say Phillip Seymor Hoffman in Capote is the best example, because at the time I thought anyone who wasn't voting for Heath Ledger was a criminal, but I ended up being blown away by PSH when I actually watched Capote. And I agree with whoever above mentioned Helen Hunt.
Regarding my question, the talk of '80s Best Picture winners gets me thinking: What do you think is the best decade of Best Picture winners?
To answer your question, Nathaniel: Probably Swank's first Oscar win.
For my question: There are four women who are winners of the Cannes Best Actress prize twice over: Barbara Hershey (USA), Isabelle Huppert (France), Helen Mirren (UK), and Vanessa Redgrave (UK). What do you think of this group? Your favorite performance from each?
I still have problems that Tatum O'Neal won over my dear Madeline Kahn for the same movie, Paper Moon. But the gripe is mostly due to TFE's common complaint, category fraud. I recently rewatched the film and while Kahn is spectacular, O'Neal has a preternatural feel for her character, too. I greatly respect her work ... it's just not supporting.
What are your favorite underrated/unheralded ensemble pieces? I ask because I'm about to rewatch Cradle Will Rock. Again.
What's your personal list of (let's say) top 10 film festivals, from most exciting to least exciting (in terms of movies and not red carpet)? Cannes, Berl;in, Venice, Rome, Sundance, Toronto, Telluride, Santa Barbara etc.? And please give a couple of thoughts about each. Thanks in advance!
I had a similar unfair, irrational resentment toward Sean Penn for winning in '08 over Rourke. I still think Rourke should have claimed that Oscar, but I realized what all the fuss was about after watching "Milk."
Question: Name an actor/actress that you used to "not get" and now love, and another who you used to "love" and now are like "what the hell was wrong with me"?
Answer: Grace Kelly robbing Judy Garland in 1954. (I'm still not quite over this.) (But I guess I get it?)
Question: Top ten actress performances of the 90s.
I have two questions because I haven't participate in this for so long (and your post title is "Two Questions anyway LOL), but you can choose just one (if you decide to choose my questions at all):
(1) Do you think any of these funny ladies: Cameron Diaz, Anna Faris, Elizabeth Banks, Kristen Wiig and Kate Hudson will break through with Oscar soon (in Hudson's case, for a second time)?
(2) Do you love Kathryn Hahn's work? I love her so much, she's golden in everything she's in. Her cameo in Tomorrowland is basically the best part of that movie.
Sorry, in compliance to your rule, here's my answer to your question:
Susan Sarandon in Dead Man Walking, because I was obsessed with Sense and Sensibility back then and was mad Emma Thompson lost in the actress race. Then many years later I finally watched Dead Man Walking and totally agreed with Sarandon's victory.
I was really upset when Maggie Gyllenhaal lost to Mo'Nique... lol jk.
@PJ Now try Elisabeth Shue
I was all Team Cate the year of I'm Not There and was furious when she lost to Tilda...
...but having watched Michael Clayton several times since then (shocking how well that movie holds up) I am so happy Tilda won. She owns that part and brings so much nuance and humanity to such a despicable character. And thank god we live in a world where Tilda is an Oscar winner. It's totally bizarre how Oscar has passed on her since then (should've been nominated for We Need to Talk About Kevin and I Am Love and WON for Julia which is one of the greatest performances I've ever seen).
Also, are there any actors/actresses/filmmakers in the past or present where it's virtually impossible for you to enjoy their work because of their celebrity, politics, off-camera antics, etc., even though they may be very well respected or critically acclaimed?
Nathaniel, Gena Rownlands is gonna be 85 on June 19!
You could try to fill this gap, like you did with Sophia, and see some of her movies. ;)
The Oscar win that used to baffle me sight-unseen was Amadeus for Best Picture. All I knew of the movie were clips of Tom Hulce laughing like a crazy person while wearing a massive wig and that felt very druken Friday night at the local Drag Club. Don't get me wrong, that's a great way to kick-off a weekend, but not exactly catnip for the Academy's taste.
Then I finally watched it, and I can safely say that I rank it the best BP choice of the 80s. It was truly great. And F. Abraham Murray (who I resented for taking Ian McKellen's role from the theater and thus depriving him of Oscar glory) is genius in it. GE-NI-US, as Penelope would put it. And Tom Hulce is a lot more nuanced than his critics would concede. His performance still has a lot of laughing and massive-wigging, though, which gives me hopes that one day someone will revive Amadeus, bringing it back to pop culture so it can wind up on the Snatch Game episode of RuPaul's Drag Race (hey, after Ben de la Creme's Dowager Countess anything is possible!)
Depriving Sir Ian of Oscar glory is a big no-no in my book, so I hate Roberto Benigni with the towering passion of the armies of Hell and I lie to myself daily that Jim Broadbent won his Oscar for that amazing turn in Moulin Rouge, not for boring me into stupor in Iris (I assume so, haven't watched it, already bored by it).
And my question, since I am in RuPaul mood:
What are your favorite movie performances that you would love to see lampooned by the Queens on the Snatch Game?
Portman in BS I know it's recent but I so wanted Annette to finally win esp after topping her best previous work in 2010,on a rewatch of both I still love both but Anettes screen time stiffed her BS is all about Portman whereas TKAAR is about the whole cast.
My Q is What happened to Jennifer Connelly discuss her career.
Henry Fonda in On Golden Pond over Warren Beatty in Reds or Dudley Moore in Arthur. I remember being very pissed at the time, because I felt like the Academy said "We're sorry. We should have given you one of these a long time ago." In retrospect, I think they got it right based on performances among the five nominees.
You see a lot of films in the theater. How do you handle the incessant use of cell phones and lots more talking? Are you able to tune it out? Is it me or do audiences at live theater performances, movies, and classical musical events seem disrespectfully noisier than ever?
I rewatched Inglorious Basterds over the weekend so your Cate/Kruger strip tickled me. I noticed that there are only TEN Kruger-tagged posts on the blog since you migrated from blogger a zillion years ago.
I'd love to see a freestanding appreciation of her gifts and singularity. There isn't another actress or celebrity like her. But whatever she's doing, I'll have what she's having because no one does it better.
I was hardly against a win I've not seen before. The only time was SaBu's win and while I still don't like it, I know now why she got it. *sigh*
Nicholas Cage had just that role that was always a winning role no matter what.
I'm also still the only one that didn't see anything special in Tilda's performance in MC. It makes me a bit sad because she's so talented and versatile.... But an Oscar is an Oscar, no matter what.
Though my question is maybe the most silliest one: why do we mourn/rage about "undeserved" wins so often? In reality it doesn't change anything....
When I first watched The Grapes of Wrath, I was determined to hate Jane Darwell because of Judith Anderson...well, after I finished it, Darwell became my own pick :)
I can't say this has ever happened to me, mostly because I don't allow myself to have opinions on something I haven't seen, so for example, I am forced to think that Grace Kelly is even more genius/revelatory in The Country Girl than Judy Garland in A Star is Born UNTIL I've seen her performance. The few times where a film or performance I hadn't yet seen has won when I was rooting for something else (during my lifetime), they haven't been able to sway my opinion once I finally did see them. Mostly it happens in reverse: I'm very good with a winner, then I see a nominated performance that was even better and rage to high heaven that it didn't win.
As for a question for you: What has been your favorite RuPaul's Drag Race Snatch Game imitation? I think mine is Jinx Monsoon's Little Edie, although there are quite a few others that I love.
1) How about the opposite? I hadn't seen Kim Basinger in L.A. Confidential before she won the Oscar and when I finally got to it, i was baffled at what exactly she won for.
2) If you could have a dinner of 2-4 actresses, living or dead, where you get to exclusively gossip and no question goes unanswered, who would you invite?
Looking back at Tilda Swinton's scenes in Benjamin Button, I would have believed she WAS in a Todd Haynes movie.
My aha moment: finally seeing The Piano and not only completely understanding Hunter's Beat Actress win (duh), but realizing I really couldn't argue with it even if I still wish Angela Bassett had an Oscar. I guess I'll keep being pissed at Hollywood for the lack of Oscar-worthy material thrown her way.
My question: How would do imagine the careers of the tragic trio at the center of Rebel Without a Cause (Wood, Dean, Mineo - who all died way too young) would have turned out? Can you name any of their longer-loving contemporaries whose careers they might have emulated?
Before seeing Vicky Christina Barcelona I was firmly in the Viola Davis for Doubt camp because I couldn't conceived of that bland, mediocre Penelope Cruz as anyone's best anything. That all changed upon seeing the film not too long after the Oscar telecast that year. She made a believer out of me.
I love the idea of this because it happens to everyone all the time, but rarely do we think of it so clearly (Sophia is amazing in the movie, the movie not so much).
I immediately thought of double winners. I am often resentful if someone gets a second Oscar when there are other great performances. Usually, the second performance has to equal or top the original win and it usually does, i.e. the aforementioned Luise Rainer in The Good Earth, Olivia de Havilland in The Heiress, and Elizabeth Taylor in Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf?
I resented at the time that Maggie Smith won a second Oscar for a crappy movie like California Suite that didn't have any (?) other nominations. All of her competitors in that year were in great movies as I recall. I was really hoping that Meryl Streep would win because it was an amazing performance and who knew if she would ever get another decent role or a nomination? :-) Wasn't Maureen Stapleton and Dyan Cannon nominated that year too? Anyway, I finally got around to watching Maggie in the role and I'm SO grateful that she was in it. Far and away the best thing in the movie and I understood completely why she got it.
BUT, I also did the same thing with Glenda Jackson. I remember thinking that she must have been socko brilliant in A Touch Of Class to beat Barbra in The Way We Were and to secure herself an Oscar win just a couple of years after the first one. And, nope, she was average in a crappy movie. Sorry Glenda!
So I guess my question is then, what about the opposite? Someone you resented for winning and then when you finally saw the performance you said that was awful and now I'm even more mad! :-)
PS Marsha, I agree with you on Nicole Kidman but you can't really say those kinds of things around here. Loved the movie, the peformance? Eh.
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