Oscar Volleys: Best Supporting Actress is a Disappointment
Wednesday, February 19, 2025 at 8:00PM The Oscar Volleys are back for some post-nomination talks. Tonight, Nathaniel Rogers and Cláudio Alves discuss Best Supporting Actress...
A COMPLETE UNKNOWN | © Searchlight Pictures
NATHANIEL: Cláudio it falls on us to discuss Supporting Actress. I thought it only fitting that we approach this as a callback to Supporting Actress Smackdowns of the past, and start the hype by discussing their character's introductions. But I could only remember two of them so there goes that idea. I'm beginning this way so as to not bury the lede: I REALLY don't like the category this year. I would not have been tempted to nominate a single one of these performances even though I like three of them just fine. The fact that I've already forgotten how they're introduced in the context of their films reinforces the mediocrity of the chosen five. To dispel this immediate negativity (sorry sorry) let's just say that I felt like one of the extras in A Complete Unknown in the sequence where we meet Joan Baez. Had I been in that cafe I, too, would have fallen silent utterly bewitched by stage presence and voice. The film doesn't make much room for Baez/Barbaro thereafter but what a voice!
Did you love any of their introduction scenes? Or, alternately if you also feel the category is weak, were you excited by any of their introductions in terms of anticipation as to what that character and that actress might bring to the rest of the film?
CLÁUDIO: Oh, how I wish I could come in as a contrarian and sing the praises of this lineup. Sadly, that would be dishonest and we're all about truth-tellin’…
Regarding the introductions, I share your affection for Barbaro's introduction. I'd go as far as stating it's the best moment in all of A Complete Unknown, down to how it's shot. Longtime readers may remember my antipathy toward Oscar-nominated cinematographer Phedon Papamichael. Still, even I had to concede this "House of the Rising Sun" scene is gorgeous to behold, framing the chanteuse in deep red curtains beautifully captured, a golden spotlight like a kiss from the heavens above. If only the rest of the picture were as pretty or besotting. If only James Mangold and Jay Cocks were more interested in Barbaro's Baez past her silent reactions to Bob Dylan.
For the other nominees, you know I have issues with the staging of "No One Mourns the Wicked," but I must concede that Ariana Grande was on fire from minute one. The scene promised me a great Glinda, and though I have issues with Wicked, it kept its word. Zoë Saldaña didn't impress me in her introductory musical number, though I did appreciate her skills with the choreography. So I guess that was a positive note amid the chaos of CHOICES I couldn't stand. Right now, I can't recall Jones' entrance into The Brutalist. Was it at the train station? Was it a letter? I'll re-watch it before this volley is over.
Finally, there's Isabella Rossellini's Sister Agnes, introduced in a bus, as the sisters arrive at Casa Santa Marte ahead of the titular conclave. As a longtime fan of hers, I was excited to see what was in store beyond her suggestion of an all-observing presence who knows more than what she's disclosing. Little did I know this would be the prevailing note in her performance. While I consider myself a defender of this nomination and think those calling it a cameo have lost their minds, I gotta say I was disappointed. I wanted more, dammit.
CONCLAVE | © Focus Features
NATHANIEL: You're right. Framing it this way does change the equation. I'm an optimist at the beginning of every movie so I am always happy to see actresses arrive. I confess I'm not especially fond of Felicity Jones in general but since she doesn't arrive until Act Two of The Brutalist the suspense at how she'd change the dynamics of the film, did intrigue me. I thought 'maybe this will be the performance that turns me around on her' (many actors have proven me wrong over the years and I love to be proven wrong when I don't "get" an actor).but no such luck. And the character is juicy on paper so I wanted to be wowed.Is it too early in the conversation to say that only one of these ladies (Barbaro) even makes my top dozen, let alone my top five! Rarely have I had a disconnect this strong with Supporting Actress. I was looking back over the past ten years of the Film Bitch Awards and I couldn't find a year like it. Usually at least one of my nominees lines up with Oscar's choices and the top twelve (since I always list the finals and semi-finals) generally includes a few of the Oscar favourites that didn't make my top five.
I promise this will be all I say about Category Fraud --so tired of discussing it! -- but as much as I love Ariane Grande's and Zoë Saldaña's work in their respective films (and I mostly do) I can't be excited that they're here because I wouldn't nominate them in Lead. Ariane Grande is lots and lots of lots of fun in Wicked - Part One so I'm trying to find ways to be happy about her nomination which I would 100% support if she were actually supporting. I suspect she'll recede in Part Two so it MIGHT retroactively become a "Supporting" role once you smoosh the two films together. So... yay? (See I'm trying to be positive).
I can feel a little bit better about Oscar's choices here if I just pretend that the only films that were eligible for acting were the 13 films that had a viable shot at Best Picture this season (I always fear those are literally the only movies they watch). If you pretend that eligiblity was limited to the Best PIcture nominated films (plus, let's say, Sing Sing, A Real Pain, and September 5 which I suspect were the three closest runners up) the Academy's lineup looks stronger. PLAY THIS STUPID GAME WITH ME. If you only had those exact 13 films to choose a Supporting Actress lineup from who would make it? With those made-up but sadly probably not super innacurate prarameters I would choose...
- Monica Barbaro - A Complete Unknown
- Leonie Benesch - September 5
- Elle Fanning - A Complete Unknown
- Rebecca Ferguson - Dune Part Two
- Aunjanue Ellis Taylor - Nickel Boys
...which is still only 1/5 with Oscar's quintet. You win some you lose some in Oscar seasons and this year I lost in terms of being able to love Oscar's choices.
CLÁUDIO: I'm more used to disagreeing with Oscar. Indeed, the last time AMPAS and I agreed on a nominee was 2019, when Florence Pugh got recognized by the actual Academy Awards and "My Oscars" spreadsheet. But you asked a fascinating question. I love these sorts of exercises, so let me think. My ideal best Supporting Actress lineup from those 13 films would include...
- Aunjanue Ellis-Taylor, NICKEL BOYS
- Darya Ekamasova, ANORA
- Rebecca Ferguson, DUNE: PART TWO
- Jennifer Grey, A REAL PAIN
- Adriana Paz, EMILIA PÉREZ
Only two match between us, and only one would make my personal top twelve. But even then, her position isn't secure. Ask me another day, and I might have kicked her out for someone much further from the Academy's limited scope. So yeah, I'm not remotely happy with AMPAS' chosen five.
I know you don't want to talk more about category fraud, but allow me to rejoice we didn't have even fewer supporting performances recognized. There's a world where Margaret Qualley and Danielle Deadwyler could have joined Grande and Saldaña. An even worse situation - though much less likely - could have involved a critical darling like Natasha Lyonne in His Three Daughters making it in, completely robbing us of supporting work in a category purposely meant to honor it. I guess that's a way to look at it and come out with some positivity. It could have been worse, fraud-wise.
Then again, of these five, the two leads are the ones that can conceivably hope to take home gold on March 2. Unless, of course, SAG throws us a curveball, but even then, it's unlikely. Saldaña is in it to win it, no matter how insufficient I might consider her work. No matter how controversial her film might be. I understand you like the performance more than I do, so could you say something to cheer me up about her impending victory? What are some qualities you see there? Apart from her dancing - an important part of such a musical performance, to be fair - I'm at a loss.
EMILIA PÉREZ | © Netflix
NATHANIEL: [Long Pause Before Answering] Confession: My mind went blank at your questions so I suddenly feared the worst, that I'd been swept up in Oscar campaign glories and hadn't really parsed out my own thoughts on Saldaña's performance from the hype! So I had to double back to my first viewing of the film (normally I'd rewatch a few scenes but time is limited) and my reactions to her and the film. One of the reasons that I think Emilia Pérez is a failure overall and the reason I remain angry at Greta Gerwig's Cannes jury -- who felt this deserved a shared Best Actress win! -- is that I have trouble believing the behavior of any of the four main female characters. The character arcs such as they are feel pre-determined rather than earned, and individual motivations and reactions are often implausible. Characters that are messily or poorly written OR, if you're feeling charitable, characters that present lots of conflicting messiness (people are complicated) can undo movies and actors but they can also serve as springboard to really transcendent acting and gripping drama.
All four of the actresses who shared that dubious Cannes award have good moments here and there, to be fair, but it's hardly award worthy stuff. Only Zoë Saldaña really made me believe emotionally and consistently in what I was watching, no matter how improbable I found her momentary actions or loyalties on a more cerebral level as someone who wasn't sold on the film. It's not just that Saldaña has always been adept at conveying character through physicality (but it's a musical so that's not nothing!) but that she is often able to convey two things at once which is crucial when your character's motivations are muddled or murky. I could see the fear laced with excitement and hints of greed tempered by innate morality in those early sequences. But to me the true selling point of the performance ("El Mal" aside) is her exquisite before and after 'bookend' work when she thinks this particular journey is over --that ecstatic relief/disbelief -- followed quickly by fleeting paralysis /terror at the dinner sequence (the film's best scene, period.) when she realizes she's been reunited with Emilia. Later in the film, she feels like the same person having lived with these contradictions. The latter is not anything any good actor couldn't do, true, but it's a lot more than her co-stars manage in the second half of the film. Did I want her to dig even deeper into Rita's contradictions? Yes, yes, I did. I wouldn't quite nominate her in lead for example, where she belongs, but I do think it's an often exhilirating and confident star turn. It's always so exciting to see undervalued actors really rise to big challenges when they're well-cast in something unexpected and bold (see also Demi Moore this annum).
I have a question for you? I told you what my favourite moment in Saldaña's performance is (and it's my favourite moment from any of the five nominees, too) so I want to hear what your favourite moment is in any of these five performances! LOOK AT US STAYING POSITIVE ABOUT THIS MIDDLING CATEGORY.
CLÁUDIO: That's a fantastic explanation of Saldaña's merits within a mess of a movie and role. While I can't say Rita ever convinced me as a coherent personality, there's something to be said about an actress so committed to selling the individual moments, disparate as they might seem, and finding some mirage of truth when neither text nor direction offers any. But you asked me about the other nominees, so let me think.
For Isabella Rossellini, it's easy. I live for her dark amusement at Fiennes' photocopier antics, that sly smile she throws him sideways, the conspiratorial glint in those eyes of hers. Recently, Peter Straughan compared Conclave to Mean Girls when accepting his BAFTA, an assertion rarely supported by the material onscreen. Yet, it's the reading that most benefits the picture, in my eyes. And I guess I do get some of that dimension in Rossellini's Sister Agnes. Her self-satisfaction at ruining Cardinal Tremblay is communicated with a sharpness of humor I wasn't expecting, some delightful note to a limited aria, almost always played on the sidelines. It also helped further the idea that these people have relationships that go far beyond the movie's narrative scope - something the screenplay could have done more emphatically.
Regarding Barbaro, my honest answer is probably her first scene, but we already talked enough about her singing intro. I'll go with the morning-after scene instead. It's still early in Baez's complicated relationship with Dylan and A Complete Unknown's hefty runtime, a snapshot full of understated prickliness that feels like two actors' colliding through diverging approaches. Chalamet is all lost in the sauce of impersonation, an insular presence that befits Dylan's attitude in this scene, all condescension and unearned superiority. But Barbaro is not going the Snach Game route. Instead, she seems to be playing a character first, an icon second, foregrounding a rhapsody of irritation interlaced with fondness, maybe the woman's perplexity at her own taste in men. Then he starts singing, and it's like she feels a compulsion, is fully conscious of it but can't help herself be drawn to talent, to this piece of art blossoming in the living room. It's probably my favorite beat in any of these performances.
THE BRUTALIST | © A24
I'll have to be a basic bitch and go with Jones' last scene in The Brutalist. Then again, am I affected by her performance or Corbet's direction of the climatic clash between László's rapacious Mephisto and his wife? What impressed me most about that scene was the camerawork. After the first passages, arriving in America and an inversion of Lady Liberty, The Brutalist is awfully controlled. Every composition and motion is pondered, as deliberate as any of the protagonist's designs. Only this scene breaks that as Jones is thrown to the ground and dragged by WASP heir in violation of the social contract and the fragile façade of respectability. Startling, it feels like a gut punch in the moment of watching it. Yet, I notice I've hardly referenced the actress, which indicates this might be thespian-proof material. Oh well, she still deserves applause for tapping into the rawness the scene requires. Do I still want to see what Marion Cotillard, Corbet's first choice, would have done with it? Yes, I do.
Finally, there's Ariana Grande, and the basic bitch realness continues. Because what can I choose if not that tremendous take on "Popular"? I was skeptical of Grande after only watching promotional material, finding the pop star turned silver screen siren was doing a Chenoweth retread and little else. But the full thing is pitch-perfect in the context of the movie. Of her many brilliant choices, my favorite is the abandon with which Grande slides through the floor on that one overhead shot, surrendering to the physical comedy for an easy laugh. Heavens, I wanted to stand up and clap.
NATHANIEL: I'd be rooting for Grande or Saldaña to win if I believed they were supporting, but my vote would go to Monica Barbaro since she actually is supporting. I love what you wrote about her scene with Chalamet which really adds to my appreciation of what she did with the role. But since I already brought up "book-ending" with Saldaña, I have to say that as much as I enjoyed the first Joan Baez scene most, my favourite beat in her performance is actually her last. It's much less of an acting challenge than her intro and that morning after sequence, but she nails it by selling it so blunty -- that sheer annoyance / dislike of Dylan and the fact that she's saddled with him, at least in a public context. I like that she doesn't complicate it at all. It's as unmistakably straightforward as any f*** off gesture tends to be.
But also I want to thank you for taking the time to really dig in to appreciating Rossellini. I have struggled to be happy with that nomination because the movie asks for very little of her and I always find it weird when famous actors who have been enjoyable quite often and for a long time, get nominated for a minor thankless role that literally anyone could have handled. I wanted Rossellini's nomination to better reflect the kinds of things she usually does onscreen: disarmingly odd character work with a deadpan sense of humor. In other words, I like my Oscar stats to lineup magically and sum up a performer's whole appeal -- which is all too rare. As a matter of fact I think it's happened just once in my lifetime (for a multiple nominee that is) via Sigourney Weaver since her three varied nominations are perfect stand-ins for her primary gifts: killer comic instincts, expressive physicality, and solid dramatic chops.
SORRY. I can't resist a tangent when it when it leads me back to just loving and living for the gift of acting, whether or not Oscar voters join in my bliss.
Okay I know we should wrap up with punditry but i have not one but three questions for the wrap-up.
1) Which of these actresses do you foresee being nominated again in the near future or ever, if any?
2) Do you think all the Emilia Pérez spiralling will rob Saldaña of the gold? (I don't... I don't think anyone else is even close to winning even if some votes are pulled away)
3) We can't end without a typical smackdown game so move these actresses around. Who would be most interesting to see in a role that one of the other contenders is playing?
WICKED | © Universal Pictures
CLÁUDIO: I think Grande is the likeliest to return unless Wicked: For Good flops, which I can't imagine happening at this point. Her role there will be more dramatic than comedic, which should only increase her chances of being recognized by voting bodies since being frothy and fun is so often taken for granted. Then again, the Academy is iffy with sequels, so one never knows. If not her, then maybe Jones, whose career continues to develop in projects and genres AMPAS naturally gravitates toward.
No, I don't think Saldaña's losing. I've seen people mention those horrendous anonymous Oscar ballots as proof that her chances aren't as big as all that, but therein lies madness. I'm not reading that trash. Indeed, I don't even know who'll end up in the runner-up position. I guess it'll be whoever is in the cast that takes the SAG for Best Ensemble Cast, which leaves Jones as the least likely winner in my book.
I'll have to pop into my time machine for that last question. Let's travel to the past and get a young Isabella Rossellini to star in The Brutalist. Can you imagine her take on those final confrontations? Or the humor she could wring out of that car ride with Guy Pearce? If not her, then I want a slightly older Monica Barbaro in a better-written and better-directed version of Emilia Pérez. Because I do think that premise, outlandish and borderline "problematic" as it is, could have produced something good. After what she accomplished with Chalamet, I feel Barbaro could have articulated Rita's quasi-nonsensical fear cum resentment cum attachment cum adoration for Emilia. Or maybe I just want to listen to her singing some more.
What about you? Please play the Smackdown Special and share your own recasting dream.
NATHANIEL: Your Isabella Rossellini proposal is the best possible fantasy. I will be thinking about it for the rest of the day. For my own, I would venture to say that I wouldn't mind seeing Ariana Grande in a dramatic singing role (a la Monica Barbaro's Joan Baez) because I want to see her range -- what else you got, Ariana? Maybe you're right that we'll see a test of that range in Wicked Part Two but I don't remember the second act of the musical giving Glinda all that much more to work with since she recedes.
I'm going to cheat on my other switcheroo proposal which is to pull in Nickel Boys' Aunjanue Ellis-Taylor (how far was she from a nomination, I wonder) and see what she could add to the Sister Agnes role in Conclave given that she's added so much to roles in the past (Nickel Boys and King Richard) that would surely have felt flat or 'stock' with a lesser actress.
Thanks for this fun wide-ranging chat. Anything to liven up this Supporting Actress season I'm all for!
NICKEL BOYS | © Amazon MGM Studios
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Reader Comments (15)
I ahven't seen Monica or Felicity so can't comment.
Emilia Perez wasn't for me but I liked Zoe the most in it,though her motivations are muddled,her smile at the end was my fave bit of business.
Rossellini and her door antics just were not enough,I like what she did in specific scenes but I did want more cos I know she can give a whole lot more,it's nice to see an actress you have loved get her flowers but for this role really Oscar.
Grande made me laugh out loud several times esp the reaction to Bailey's character thinking,she's my winner at the moment,I'm no big fan of hers and have never seen the stage show,loved loved loved her in this,wipes the floor with the charismaless Erivo.
my own nominess and i've not seen 5 contenders Curtis,Ellis,Barabo,Austin and Jones
Ariana Grande Wicked
Joan Chen DiDi
Margaret Qualley the Substance
Zoe Saldana Emilia Perez
Cailee Spaney Civil War
Any thoughts on Chen,Spaney and Qualley,Claudio who are your nominees.
Nice convo, guys.
A few thoughts:
1) This is my favorite Felicity Jones performance, so I'm not displeased by the nomination
2) Of the 2024 films I've seen so far, my nominees in this category would be Jones, Curtis (The Last Showgirl), Ellis-Taylor (Nickel Boys), Ferguson (Dune 2), Manville (Queer)
3) My favorite Barbaro moment is Baez's over-it duet ("It Ain't Me, Babe") with Dylan
4) Will Grande play Audrey Hepburn?
My favorite Barbaro beat is on the co-headline tour when Dylan won't sing the hits. It's her clearest take on what made Baez a star performer, and it involves so much quick thinking to hold that crowd. You're never worried about her.
I'm a fan of the woek by Jones and Rossellini, but Barbaro has my vote
Here just to say Toni Collette in Juror n2
Toni Collette - YES. That's my golden medal. She's brilliant playing Clint Eastwood (think Kevin Bacon in Mystic River). Tough, understated, no-nonsense.
LOVE this performance.
I loved Barbaro—the moments you mention are great, but I also loved her onstage in Newport and on tour. Those scenes work because she locates so much texture and nuance in those reaction shots, the balance of personal frustration with “good sport” skill as an entertainer. You feel her connections to both Dylan and the crowd/community all at once.
Trine Dyrholm from The Girl with the Needle wins gold for me. She's the woman running the business and she manages to be scary, warm, charismatic and one of the most interesting characters of 2024.
She got some nods for it but not nearly enough attention.
Dyrholm gets my vote too.
Another vote for Dyrholm here
She easily is my #1, my second and third choices would it be Divya Prabha in All We Imagine as Light and Nataly Rocha in Motel Destino
Ariana is funny but not as a winner and Saldaña is great in the musical sequences but her character feels like a puppet of the titular character
Category fraud notwithstanding, I am a much bigger fan of this lineup than you two gentlemen. The one performance I am not on board with - Saldana 's - is unfortunately going to win. Rita is an audience surrogate character in EP with no arc. When one thinks of The Great Gatsby for instance nobody dwells on Nick.
My vote would be for Grande but I LOVED Jones and Barbaro as well.
Just wanted to pop by and say that, of the nominees, my pick would be Felicity Jones, and I'm saddened that she gets no love from this site. I find the way she portrays strength and cleverness through fragility to be quite compelling. Yes, I also would have loved to see what Marion Cotillard would have done with the role, but we have Felicity Jones and I think she's terrific in the role (and in the scene Cláudio mentions, there's a beat where the camera stays on her face even when the people on the table have already seen her, and we get so many emotions running across it as she's facing the person's she has come to accuse).
I'm glad the comments are mentioning Trine Dyrholm, whose final scene is the thing good Oscar clips are made of (though she is a force to be reckoned with throughout the film).
If this was the smackdown:
Barbaro- I don't see it. She sings beautifully but the movie doesn't give her anything to do.
Saldana- I don't really see it. There are flashes of greatness (the first time she sees Emilia after her surgery for example) but other than that she is...fine I guess?
Grande- I kind of see it- She is clearly having fun and I had fun with her, but it seems just ok.
Jones- I do see it- Jones gets to play a lot of layers with this character (watch her think before she reacts to almost any situation- years of pain have taught her this)
Rossellini- Am I the only one to see it?- I love how she never really lets us know what Sister Agnes is thinking. At first we believe she will be an antagonist but then she assists our prime narrator. However, why is she helping? Does she believe what he is doing is moral or is just sturring shit up because she has been given a chance to do it? Is she even on a side or just a silent agent of chaos who happens to help save the day?
Should be nominated: Mahsa Rostami from Seed of the Sacred Fig
The fact that Saldana had "no arc" may be why they put her in Supporting.
Tom, totally agree. I think she’s great in Conclave, the “she has nothing to do” crowd have been so category fraud-pilled that they can’t fathom a memorable and perfectly judged supporting performance.