Occupy Q&A! Purposefully Bad Acting & Post-Movie Etiquette
Thursday, December 8, 2011 at 7:00PM 
Roughly one hundred years ago on November 18th, 2011 I took questions for the next Q&A and after what was meant to be a short diversion answering the oddly abundant small screen questions I am now answering them. I am many things but I am nothing if not punctual. This is Part one of two as there is much to answer. Tomorrow's edition will actually arrive tomorrow night as it's already written. Yay me!
Just to stretch out the variety a bit I asked y'all to refrain from any questions about legendary actresses this time -- my favorite topic and apparently yours since many of you didn't listen ;) -- so in this week's column, the men get a little time to shine. Let's go!
ANNIE: What was your favorite experience of seeing a movie with an audience, where the audience's reaction actually enhanced your viewing?
I've had many screenings like this that have enhanced my love of the movie we're all watching together. Which is why I believe so emphatically in the sanctity of moviegoing, and why I wish studios and theaters would lower prices before they price themselves out of populist relevance. TV is free and home theaters are getting larger so the movies really need to understand that they can't be making it so difficult for families to hit the multiplex or who will go? Movie attendance is a fraction of what it once was no matter how big the box office numbers seem and that is sad.
Jack and Leo discussing how awesome Barbra Streisand is in "Funny Girl"In terms of special events almost nothing beats Funny Girl's revival at the Ziegfeld several years ago here in NYC. It must have been sold out and that theater is HUGE. I saw at least one semi-famous person in the crowd and everyone was obviously there because they loved the movie. Seeing such a legendary star-making performance super-sized in a historic theater that had actual ties to the movie? Bliss. Nobody was raining on anyone's parades in there. It felt like oxygenated euphoria in that house. Also you know what movie was fun to watch with a typical noisy multiplex crowd just a few blocks from there? The Departed ! I still relish the audience reaction when you-know-who gets shot so mercilessly without fanfare or warning. It was as if there were tiny rugs under every individual theater seat and diabolical trickster Martin Scorsese had yanked them all at once and all OH.HELL.NO broke loose in there; the most fun you'll ever have watching someone get shot in the head!
How's that for a double feature: Funny Girl and The Departed ? Hee.
JOHN-PAUL: With three summer releases still alive in the Best Picture race (The Help, Midnight in Paris, The Tree of Life) and fall Oscar-bait movies seemingly underwhelming left and right (J. Edgar, The Ides of March, Carnage, A Dangerous Method, etc.), do you think the so-called "Oscar season" will become less relevant in the coming years?
I wish I could say "Yes" but this happens on a fairly regular basis and nothing changes. What's more this year has even more "one week qualifiers" than usual (4 or 5 by my count), so the system is definitely not changing for the better. I hate to be a broken record but I firmly believe that AMPAS should change the rules drastically. I don't think a film should be eligible for the Oscars unless it has allowed regular moviegoers to watch it in at least the top six markets. The current system gets called elitist on a regular basis but for stupid reasons ("Hey they didn't vote for that lame-ass blockbuster sequel that audiences flocked to for habitual lemming-like reasons!") and never for the actual elitist problem which is that you can show yourself for seven days in one theater in LA and ignore moviegoers totally and still be eligible for Best Movie prizes. That's all kinds of elitist, suggesting that the only audience a movie need concern itself with is 6000+ voting members of AMPAS.
Mr. W: Any thoughts on Jean-Jacques Beineix' 'Diva'?
Have you ever seen DIVA (1981)? It's quite a time capsule.
Love it. Saw it three times at least in the 80s on VHS. Unfortunately I remember little about it other than its distinctly 80s new wave aesthetic and the fantastic diversity of the cast (black, asian and white characters on equal footing in the narrative? So rare in the 80s! And even now). I also liked that the story was built around something as mundane but unusual as a bootleg concert of an opera singer who refused to be recorded. No one speaks of "bootlegs" anymore -- they were put out of business by illegal downloads and leaking.
JOHN T: Which legendary male actor would you like to pull a Christopher Plummer and make a comeback and get his first nomination-must be 65 or older to enter.
To make this easier on myself I only looked at like 5 years or so. From the 65-70 year old bunch it feels off somehow that performers as accomplished as Nick Nolte, John Hurt (who stars in a buzzy short film this year called Sailcloth), and Harvey Keitel don't have Oscars and it's flat out insane that Ian McKellen might never win. But you asked about men who'd never been nominated.
There are so many guys who've have great moments here and there but never the part to snag Oscar attention. But you asked for legendary. Hmmm. define legendary? Let's see...
Steve Martin is Steve Martin AND Lily Tomlin in "All of Me"
I'd always kind of hoped that Tim Curry would get one last indelible role in a movie... maybe something against type which would challenge him to restrain himself but still utilise his showmanship in the service of the movie; I've always loved Bob Balaban's confidently low key presence in character parts. He has been nominated before but as a producer (for Gosford Park); Ben Vereen rarely works anymore but wouldn't it be fun if some movie musical found an eyecatching part for him at least for a legend-honoring cameo?; I'd love to see John Cleese get another showcase as good as A Fish Called Wanda; But my final answer is going go to be Steve Martin because he should have had the title Oscar-Nominee decades ago. He rarely challenges himself anymore onscreen but it'd be so great if he did. He still has a razor sharp sense of humor as his twitter feed and books show and he's still an adventurous creative type as the recent Grammy nomination for bluegrass album reminds us.
LAIKA: Best performance of a good/great actor as a lousy actor? Bonus points if the answer does not involve 'Waiting for Guffman'?
Jean Hagen is a star in "Singin' in the Rain" but it's Debbie Reynolds who's got the talent.
I have two go-to answers to this question but few things in movies are more delightful than this particular switcheroo trick. I think Julianne Moore is 100% brillz at porn acting in Boogie Nights but that's a very specific kind of bad acting. So maybe my answer would be Jennifer Tilly's apocalyptic acting in Bullets Over Broadway which is still screamingly hilarious 17 years on. "The heart is labynthinine!" I'm so so pleased she won an Oscar nomination that year.
But then again almost anybody going this route should say a few Hail Hagens on their way to the set. "I CANNNNNNNNNNT STAN' IT."
IGGY: What do you think about the Occupy Wall Street movement?
I'm all for it but because it is Oscar season I can't attend. I'm working through this very specific sort of abstract career where I earn money based on donations (see sidebar subscription links if your blessed with an extra $2.50 a month you can spare to keep me from starving. I really can't stress enough how much this helps just from the handfuls of generous souls who've signed up), freelance articles, and ad buys (click away). I have to devote all my time towards building up goodwill for future abstract revenue. My life is weird. But I am all for Occupy Wall Street in this horrible vampire economy where all the money trickles up to people who could never possibly spend what they have but also view taxes as beyond the pale, even though they wouldn't even miss the money. Civilized equitable society requires taxes to function. Grow up people! Stop with the demonization of taxes already [except taxes going to super profitable companies who have rigged the system to get your tax dollars as subsidy in addition to their profits.] I mean, who wants a society where only rich people could call law enforcement for help? Where only rich people could go to the doctor? Where only rich people's children could learn to read? I mean who wants these things besides Fox News viewers who've been brainwashed to vote against their own well being in favor of the 1%.
All of which is not to say that the über wealthy are evil. Wealthy people are, like poor people, capable of both good and evil but our country has been tilting towards conservative policies for so very long that it's now this totally unbalanced place where working people are considered 'greedy' for wanting annual raises or job security and redistribution of wealth is considered evil when it's trickling down to people whose lives it could change but well and good and right when it's trickling up to people who don't need it and have only "earned" it insofar as they are part of a particular social class who can afford to lobby to bend the system in their favor and build the trickle up machinery.
All of which made The Iron Lady a really hard watch for me since it basically worships that icon of the hard right. It's so weird that such a warm and liberal actress would be playing such a cold conservative giant. The movie makes some feint nods at problems people had with her policies but always in scattered, ineffective and very very brief ways. Mostly it's just like "What a woman!!!"
WENDY KROY: Sharon Stone (Crazy!!!) and Helena Bonham Carter (Crazier!!!) are starring in a stage musical of "Whatever Happened to Baby Jane?" Who plays which part and why? :-)
Are you trying to kill me? I wish to never hear Sweeney Todd's Helena Bonham Carter singing again. So obviously I'd have to give her the Joan Crawford part and keep her gagged as well as wheelchair bound throughout the narrative. So Sharon gets all the songs.
Anyway I said no actress questions in this edition! Pay attention class ;)
QUESTIONS O' THE WEEK
AMES: If seeing a film in a theater with another person, how long do you wait before discussing it: credits, walking out, drive home, next day over the phone, never?
Great question. It depends on the person but I actually have trouble with that "so, what did you think?" the second the credits are rolling. I get that that's totally natural and I'm sure I've asked movie friends this question too early myself. If going out to dinner afterwards that's perfect but wait till after you've chosen from the menu. At the very least, give me at least until the "no animals were harmed" moment in the credits. Then, if you must, ask away. "So, Nathaniel. What did you think?"
YOUR TURN
• Which purposefully bad acting do you admire?
• Which retirement aged male actor would you love to see in a meaty Oscar-worthy role?
• How long do we have to wait to get your insta-judgment of a movie. I mean... is it truly instant or does it require like grinding, steam pressing or percolation?
Reader Comments (32)
He only just scrapes in at 65, and it wouldn't really be a comeback as he's been constantly employed, but Alan Rickman surely deserves Academy recognition by now.
Donald Sutherland! This is the man who gave such great performances in Don't Look Now, Ordinary People, MASH, Invasion of the Body Snatchers, Without Limits, Klute and Pride & Prejudice to go more recent. He even worked with Fellini! It's crazy he hasn't gotten an Oscar nod ONCE in his lifetime and he's 76.
The last great showcase I've seen the D Suth receive was in JFK. (Haven't Joe Wright's Pride and Prejudice).
Not sure if it quite fits the bill, but good/bad acting: Naomi Watts' rehearsal in "Mulholland Drive" vs. the actual audition. Definitely the "oh shit!" moment in that film (or at least, the first of several).
Bob Hoskins! I read this week that he is in a Syfy channel Peter Pan prequel and, having seen The Long Good Friday, Brazil, and Mona Lisa for the first time this year, it made me sad.
-Since only Waiting for Guffman was banned, I will choose the other Christopher Guest gem, For Your Consideration. Catherine O'Hara in that movie is pure gold.
-Totally agree with Steve Martin. And it needs to be for the film adaptation of Follies (as Buddy, natch).
-After we've ordered our post-movie dinner or cocktail. Unless I hated it, then I will probably scream about how much I hated it the second I am out of doors and out of earshot of my fellow audience members (most recently done last night with Young Adult).
When I think of amazing bad acting, I think of Catherine O'Hara and Parker Posey in "For Your Consideration". Sure, they were hilariously bad in "Waiting for Guffman" too, but in "Consideration" their satire of 'Oscar Bait Acting' is simply irresistible. There are just too many brilliant moments, I can't even begin to list them!
I remember when I saw Match Point, people gasped when Scarlett Johansson first appeared on-screen in the ping pong scene. That was pretty cool and she looked every inch the movie star.
• Which purposefully bad acting do you admire?
Madonna in Dick Tracy
• Which retirement aged male actor would you love to see in a meaty Oscar-worthy role?
Danny Glover
• How long do we have to wait to get your insta-judgment of a movie. I mean... is it truly instant or does it require like grinding, steam pressing or percolation?
Depends on the movie
I absolutely LOVE Diva. I saw it in theaters when they rereleased it a few years ago. Beautiful movie. There were thingsin 'Hanna' this year that reminded me of it (and similar movies of the period i.e. Carax's 'Bad Blood') a bit, which endeared the movie to me even more.
Purposely bad acting? Michelle Williams nails that in My Week with Marilyn. Bjork does nicely during the Sound of Music scenes in Dancer in the Dark. However, my favorite is Rachel Harris as Mary Pat Hooligan in For Your Consideration. She nails actors who think they're better than they are because they stay in character during the entire shoot.
First let me just say that I, too, saw FUNNY GIRL back when it played on the big screen and it was indeed magical! A night I will never forget.
Another vote for Alan Rickman. (Swoon). Can't believe he's never been nominated!
It really depends on the movie for me and on the person I'm with.... I do like to think about it a bit and not talk about it right away as a general rule.
Interesting seeing Mac's response here - theaters are both a communal experience but sharing one's opinion on the experience is not really the thing, is it? (Exceptions might tend towards the positive response like a crowd going "wooo!" after a punchy blockbuster EXPLOSION QUIP CREDITS.)
I like a discussion meandering in the lobby (or the parking lot, if it's a warm summer night) myself.
Agreed on Tim Curry! Even in the bad movies he was always so much fun to watch. There have been a few Michael Caine roles in recent years I think Curry would have been interesting in...
I mostly see movies with my boyfriend these days and we saw The Artist last night. When he asked me after the final credits rolled (there's no talking until every last credit has gone by) if I liked the movie, I knew that meant he liked it and thought I liked it, which I did. We won't talk about movies that we think we are going to disagree about until we are sitting at the restaurant afterwards but if it's one we think we'll agree on, we'll start talking about right away. Then there was Melancholia which we didn't talk about for a few days because I knew he didn't like it and I needed time to process my great feelings for it and not want to clobber him when he went off on it.
By the way, thank you for leading off with my question! I was ranting about cell phone evil people earlier this week but I really am trying to remember why I do love seeing movies in theaters, and part of that love is the communal reaction when everyone's engaged in the same way.
I'm always glad to hear someone loving 'Diva'. Among the films I love to death, it's probably the least known, so it feels like some kind of personal treasure of mine.
I hear you on the Occupy Wall St issue. There is/was a similar movement here. To me what is surprising is that it isn't a huge popular thing. Everything is so wrong right now, that there should be millions of people around the world marching or occupying their public spaces 24/7.
It's so frustrating being ruled by financial markets who unashamedly speculate with people's lives, being blackmailed by rating agencies that tell entire countries what to do and what not to do or they'll downgrade them. Having the entire Europe ruled by Merkel and Sarkozy as if they were its owners and not just politicians that sooner or later will be replaced by others. Having entire governments (Greek and Italian) replaced by former bankers (!!). Having peripheral Europe - it's peripheral for financial crisis, the rest of the time it's just Europe so that you don't need a passport to come and get drunk at cheaper prices- ruled by Germany and France without having voted for them. And then, it's even more frustrating to realize most people don't seem to notice or to care enough to do something, anything. And with all that in mind, someone decided Thatcher needs to have her own love letter, just in case History won't forgive her mistakes, let's make sure movies do. Common!!
I've got an idea for a screenplay. Let's call it Il Cavaliere. It'll explain how being slapped on his face by his mother when she caught him pleasing himself at the age of 12, would lead our hero years later to an endless search for love in the hands of countless anonymous professional women. It'll explain how this need for love, this need to be accepted and loved, led him to buy as many media as possible so that people would know this side of him. It'll also explain how he needed to change laws and rules because someone like him wasn't meant to be judged, only to be loved.
/End of rant
I still want to see Peter O'Toole winning his Best Actor Oscar. It's still time, people.
Austin Pendleton.
Seeing Ben Vereen in a good movie-musical role would be mega-fantastic. I love it when he shows up on Sirius XM's On Broadway station.
"The Departed" was also the best experience I ever had in a theater. Along with the "oh shit" moments during the movie, the last shot got a huge reaction from the audience. Half of them (including me and my friends) groaned in a good-natured way, and the other half exploded with laughter (but again, in a good way). I would pay good money to go back and reexperience that night.
I always tend to say something right after leaving a movie because talking about anything else seems so awkward, especially if the movie was good. But I find that talk of the movie tends to sprinkle itself lightly throughout the rest of the day/evening, organically popping up every now and then in little nuggets of criticism, which I often like more than one big discussion.
By far the best experience I have ever had in a movie theater was Borat. My sister and I went to see it based on one moment in the commercials (the "not joke" bit), and I'm so glad we did. You could literally feel the whole theater laugh and gasp and boo as one at various points. And hearing everyone else having the same reactions made everyone more comfotable, as the movie went on, to react honestly and loudly to what was happening. Watching it on DVD with my (liberal, funny) parents, it had approximately 100% less impact.
The other big "see it in the theater" moment I remember is from Dreamgirls. When Jennifer Hudson let loose on that final note of "And I Am Telling You..." the entire theater burst into applause - HUGE, LOUD applause that lasted well into the next scene. No other musical prompted such enthusiastic response, even Chicago, which I saw in a theater packed full of musical junkies and got polite applause after All That Jazz and Cell Block Tango and that was it.
Denny -- thanks for sharing. love these stories. I remember the crowd reaction to Jennifer Hudson's big solo, too. it was insane. and when it happened your like "yep, winning the Oscar!"
Can I just say, I have zero idea why Carnage is getting such a ho-hum reception. I found it ridiculously funny, with four strong performances and the kind of nasty, biting screenplay we rarely get these days.
Nathaniel, I feel like I want to print out your essay on the current state of the economy and post it somewhere. Well said, sir.
//3rtfu11 - that was "purposefully bad" acting on Madonna's part?
I don't know if you remember, but Steve Martin actually did garner Oscar buzz at various points throughout the 80's. He was discussed as a potential Best Actor candidate for All of Me and a potential Best Supporting Actor candidate for Little Shop of Horrors. He also WON the WGA award for Best Adapted Screenplay for Roxanne, yet he was still not nominated for the Oscar.
Oh, and my answer would definitely be Donald Sutherland. It's kind of shocking that he's never been nominated, even when he co-headlined a Best Picture winner before (Ordinary People).
John -Paul i definitely would have chosen donald sutherland if i kept moving up in years. I jsut forgot and didn't get that far. It's insane that he had so many oscar films and no nominations. not even a coattails nod!
and i remember the steve martin buzz. yes. pity it never panned out.
I love when I get those "yep, you're winning the Oscar!" vibes during a movie...
Janice I love Madonna. Just a cheap jab for humor.
Oh boy, I saw What's Love Got To Do With It on a military base on Guam. I have never, never seen an audience reaction like I did for that one. There were many moments of people talking back to the screen (of course), but when Angela finally started punching back, the audience erupted. People were jumping up and down, screaming at the screen, punching the air, punching each other. It was wild chaos. What an event!
A good actor playing a bad actor? Roddy McDowall in Fright Night!
Audience reaction enhancing my viewing: I saw MAMMA MIA Sunday matinee with my brother. The theater was, of course, full of older folks. THEY ATE THE MOVIE UP. There were times when the theater literally felt like a Broadway show/concert. PEOPLE WERE DANCING. Since I wasn't too invested in the movie, I let the whole experience wash over me which was actually quite awesome. It's why I still smile when someone brings up the movie. Yes, the movie itself was a mess, but as a whole it was fun though not sure I'd say the same if I didn't have that very unique theatrical experience.
Movie discussions after screening: It all depends. We usually have quick reactions as we're walking to our next destination then would talk about it sporadically throughout the day/evening. If we're eating dinner, we'll spend some time on talking about the film more deeply if it warranted it.