Q&A: Brie & Saoirse, Superhero & Oscar, Actors & Politics
Wednesday, March 9, 2016 at 8:00PM As promised it's time to answer ten reader questions, pulled from your comments. We'll try to do this weekly for awhile because I don't want you to abandon us in the offseason. "DON'T LEAVE US," he cried out, voice trembling, mascara running.
Pedro: Who are your top ten actors/actresses that also participated in politics (were appointed/elected to office or just participated in an election but were not elected, for example)?
You guys aren't supposed to ask top ten questions! I have not paid close enough attention to this weird occurrence, so I dont even know who has done this really. The most famous examples are surely Ronald Reagan, Nancy Reagan, and Arnold Schwarzenegger with Glenda Jackson a distant fourth. But I have no personal favorites since basically I don't like it when actors shift careers. My 11th commandment proposal: Acting is a rare gift - thou shalt not waste it!
Of course Nancy Davis and Ronald Reagan were no great shakes in the acting department before they became POTUS & FLOTUS so the loss wasn't extreme. We're supposed to be saying nice things about them this week since Nancy just died (RIP) so I'd better just move on before I get myself into trouble since our national fantasy about how great the Reagans were is all kinds of f***ed up and problematic...
But, P.S., I did find it momentarily fascinating when there were rumors that Ashley Judd was going to do it.
DJDeeJay: what's your favorite example of male objectification in a movie?
[The answer and 8 more questions after the jump...]
Can I say "I haven't seen it yet?" Most of the time I think the movie camera is pretty coy when it's looking at men, even in films where the male physique is something of the subject as in superhero franchises which are male fantasies of self-actualization/empowerment. Imagine working out as hard as Chris Hemsworth had to for Thor and then getting one shirtless scene that only lasts 2 seconds. My favorite superhero objectification is that beat in Captain America: The First Avenger when Steve Rogers emerges from the super soldier machine with a whole new muscled body and Agent Peggy Carter can't help but reach out to touch him. It's the moment I fell in love with BOTH of them and I've been true to them ever since.
This question would make a great top ten list since it requires lots of pictures to make its arguments. Perhaps soon!
Chris: What's your favorite gay classic that has basically nothing to do with gay people?
Great Goddess! What a loaded question. The instantaneous answer that kicked my head when I read the question is Whatever Happened to Baby Jane? But there are many. Hey, this would make a good top ten list, too.
Craver: Who is your favorite fictional president?
President Laura Roslyn, Battlestar Galactica. In a landslide even if she wasn't exactly elected into office. So say we all. That Mary McDonnell didn't even receive one nomination, let alone the win(s) she deserved is one of the top five reasons I have trouble ever taking the Emmys seriously.
Dr G: What festivals are on the calendar for TFE to cover this year? (I just moved to Austin and will be attending SXSW next week - so... any tips on creating a realistic festival schedule?).
We'll be covering our usuals this year: Tribeca, Nashville, TCM (all in April), Toronto (September), New York (October), and AFI (November). We'd do more but for the cost of travel/attending. I'd love to go to Cannes but the site doesn't generate enough money to make that feasible. As for realistic schedules, this really depends on your own stamina as a movie buff. The first time I did a festival I assumed I could handle lots of 4 movie days but I found that I enjoyed it a lot more when I just did 3 a day or alternated 4 & 2. That way I still had time to think/write about each one and do other things that I'm told humans enjoy like sleeping, eating, socializing.
Nicolas M: Which auteur(s) do you want see Brie Larson and Saoirse Ronan work with next?
Brie Larson & Saoirse Ronan at Sundance 2015
This is a really good question. They're both too early in their careers for us to get a sense of whether or not they're director-motivated as some actors are. Brie's best film work (Short Term 12, Room, Rampart, Scott Pilgrim) has always involved fairly fresh filmmakers... and her acting is so naturalistic that I kind of hope she avoids established auteurs who she'd have to stylize her work for and keeps working with relative newbies. Saoirse, on the other hand, gives off the screen vibes of someone who is likely to become an auteur muse (even if the only director she's worked with twice is Joe Wright) but I hope it's not Wes Anderson who latches on first since he wasted her in Grand Budapest Hotel and he rarely gives the ladies much to do. Plus Brooklyn reveals an actress of much more warmth and nuanced romanticism than we might previously have expected given those cool eyes and her amoral fine work in both Hannah and Atonement.
Brookesboy: Which acting Oscar winner's performance from this year will endure.
That leaves only four choices and the easy winner is Brie Larson since Room is such a sturdy intimate drama with electric actor chemistry (chemistry never feels dated. If it's there it stays there.). It's fascinating in both conception and execution, with themes that can resonate in both universal and ultra specific ways. I can see people caring about it a long time from now. The others not so much. The Revenant really has no substance to latch on to (a man wants revenge! in the wilderness!!), Bridge of Spies is solid but not quite top tier Spielberg, and people barely cared much about The Danish Girl to begin with so how will they care about it in 10 years?
Flickah: who among the superhero movies cast has given a performance that you think should have merited award consideration, apart from Ledger and Downey Jr.?
I CANNOT THINK OF WHO...
I'M SURE IT WILL COME TO ME...
This question presupposes that I think Robert Downey Jr merited awards consideration for Iron Man (he was really good in the first one but that's a stretch) or that there will be several players I might name. While The Film Experience is genre-friendly in terms of awardage and ideas about where you can find greatness (hint: any genre) the superhero genre is not actually all that conducive to GREAT acting in the way, say, the horror genre is because there is rarely much subtext or complicated psychology to play. I think Heath Ledger (The Dark Knight) and Michelle Pfeiffer (Batman Returns) are the only actors to date in this young subgenre of movies to have transcended it so completely that they were totally Oscar win worthy.
"KNEEL BEFORE ZOD!" (We'd love to)This is not to say that I don't think others have done very fine work. Obviously we'd kneel before Terence Stamp's Zod! Who else? Hmmm...
I think RDJ in the first and third Iron Man movies, Chris Evans as Captain America every single time, Paul Bettany & James Spader in Age of Ultron, Scarlett Johansson in The Avengers, Christopher Reeve in the first Superman, and Tobey Macguire (yes Tobey Maguire. shut up) in the first Spider-Man all nailed those characters, the style and tone, and elevated their films. On the small screen I think you can make an easy case that Charlie Cox as Daredevil and Hayley Atwell as Agent Carter are worthy of Emmy nominations. (Not that anyone would listen: Emmy voters are way too conservative to ever stray from their favorites in 4th, 6th, and 17th seasons.)
John T: What are your favorite things about the moviegoing experience aside from the actual movies themselves (ie the theater, the concessions, things of that nature)?
I know I am continually stressing "GO TO THE MOVIES!" but that's because I really think it's the ideal way to see and hear a story. Yes, other patrons can sometimes ruin it but you're never more attentive to a movie than when you're watching it in the cocoon of a dark room where that succession of images is the only thing to focus on. I don't love concessions very much (too $$$) but when I buy it's always popcorn. But I love picking a seat and that moment when the lights dim or the curtains open (if the theater has curtains) and you feel like anything could happen up there. There's about to be a whole new world to get lost in.
Richter Scale: I'd like to know how you define a Lead performance vs. a Supporting performance. What are the criteria you use to measure whether a performance is Lead or Supporting and where would you draw the line?
I don't actually find this complicated. I once did a graphic on this. Let me see if I can find it. Okay. Here. hopefully it's not too small to read:
That one is kind of snarky so here's a less judgy formula. Pick a movie. Attempt to describe the plot of that movie in one sentence. If you can't do it in a way that sounds like an authentic representation of the story without including a specific character, that character is the lead or the co-lead.
That's it for this edition, dear readers. Who do you think should have been up for awards for the spandex subgenre? Do you feel similarly about Brie & Saoirse? Would you vote for an actor in an election beyond the Oscars?
Reader Comments (40)
I'd add in The Marvel Michaels, Rooker and Pena, for Guardians and Ant-Man to what you mentioned. Small screen, I'd go with Ritter (so good I'd almost want to see her get a movie outing before Black Widow. They have the perfect template too: Jessica Jones: Identity Tape. Hopefully someone is allowed to keep a secret identity long enough for it to make sense.) over Atwell.
Love that question about Male Objectification. Would be so fascinating to unpack this one a bit more. The example that jumps out to me is Gael Garcia Bernal in Bad Education.
For that male objectification top ten you should ask your resident expert JA from MNPP.
On the superhero question, Scarlett I thought was really great in The Winter Soldier, also the ones you mentioned, and I've always been a fan of Alfred Molina in Spider-Man 2. Michael Fassbender and Ian Mackellen as Magneto. But yeah besides Pfeiffer and Ledger, I don't think there have been any more awards worthy performances, in movies at least, because yeah, Hayley Atwell is the best.
I think Scott Pilgrim showed Brie can do stylized, so I would love to see her in a horror movie. Maybe something with Adam Wingard, or someone like that. Ronan does have that warmth you speak of, but I would love to see if she could do icy. So I would love to see her do something with Jonathan Glazer, or maybe some sci-fi with anyone.
And I know this movie isn't considered a classic, like at all, but me and most of my gay friends are obsessed with Death Proof. We quote it to each other all the time, so that came to mind with me.
Thank you, Nathaniel!
Male Objectification: Magic Mike and Magic Mike XXL Though for the most part, I don't think of those movies as "sexy". Soderbergh's cinematography in XXL during the scenes at Jada's house turn the male body into a work of art.
I do think there can be quite a big difference between objectification of the male body through the male gaze versus the female gaze. I really responded to the way Gina Prince-Bythewood shot the love scenes with Nate Parker and Gugu. I also always think of the way Andrea Arnold shot Fassbender in Fish Tank. She lingered on his back and waist in a way that a straight male director probably would not (they go for pecs, biceps, abs). It's been a while since I've seen Claire Denis' work, but again, I recall the focus being way different.
Best male objectification
(arthouse): Fassbender, Shame
(popcorn): 300
(classic): Brando, A Streetcar Named Desire
(TV): Spartacus
(classic TV): Robert Conrad, The Wild, Wild West
I will now turn in my Michelle Pfeiffer pfan card, because what the hell was I thinking not including her in there? Now she really wouldn't touch me to scratch me.
Downey's Iron Man I included because it seemed the most popular and game-changing for the actor and for the superhero he portrayed, and people have been nominated for less, though I suppose the Academy's Everest-size genre bias really wouldn't have gotten him there. That said, it's easy to forget that Iron Man was a B-list superhero at best and that Downey was considered an un-insurable mess before the movies. Seems eons ago now.
I miss having curtains before movies :'-( nowhere in town still does it, but they used to
I can always remember the screen I saw films on, so when I have repeated positive response in the same theatre it's like an added nerdy bonus. I love that I saw my top two 2015 favorites on the same screen.
Eavesdropping on fellow patrons can be a blast too. Matinee ladies who have no idea what they're seeing are my favorite and they never get the titles right. My all time favorite: RISE OF THE MOON KINGDOM (... aka MOONRISE KINGDOM)
Oh and male objectification: Brad Pitt in THELMA AND LOUISE. The struggle is real.
None of them for superhero movies.
Brie with Kathryn Bigelow and Soarirse with Woody Allen.
People thought Reagan would never be elected, which is why Drumpf scares me.
The Lainey blind re: Brie on shrooms is delicious.
(2004) Doing Hard Time has a nude shower fight though one of the men in the scene is fully clothed but whatever.
Michelle Pfeiffer / Alfre Woodard failing to earn a slot in supporting actress 1992 is the real irritating part of Marisa Tomei's nomination and win nobody talks about. Tomei and Plowright you must sashay away.
David Tennant as Killgrave belongs with Ledger and Pfeiffer.
Good golly. The Danish Girl will be ripped to shreds in 10 years time when the world becomes more trans-aware. And may the complete erasure of Gerda's queerness cause disdain on this win.
Male objectification:
Already mentioned Gael's glory in Bad Education and Brando's meow in A Streetcar Named Desire. Remember Gotaro Tsunashima in Japanese Story?
I probably would have thrown a Globe Comedy nomination at Chris Pratt for GUARDIANS OF THE GALAXY. Alfred Molina and Ian McKellen dish up some villainy goodness in SPIDER-MAN 2 and X2 respectively, but I don't think I'd put either in an Oscar line-up.
I'd love to see Brie Larson work with maybe an Alexander Payne (the wonders she could've done in THE DESCENDANTS...), or a similar indie dramedy-type, where she gets to really settle into a relatively normal and funny but flawed character. I think the real joy of her performance in TRAINWRECK, and the reason why so many people gravitated to that performance, is her ease in just being present in a very ordinary situation like that, which I think is what keeps ROOM from turning into an overacted melodrama. I think had she not won her Oscar so early, her career could have very easily looked a lot like Laura Linney's, which I think is a pretty high compliment.
I already think Saoirse Ronan's filmography demonstrates that she's an auteur-inclined girl. Like you've said, she's worked with Joe Wright (twice), Peter Jackson, Neil Jordan, Wes Anderson, Kevin MacDonald, Peter Weir. For such a young actress she's worked with some highly acclaimed directors.
I love the suggestion of her working with Jonathan Glazer. I would also love to see what Sofia Coppola could bring out of her.
I don't think Room is going to age well.
Closing comments makes YOU a fphuvking coward. Why are your photos distorted. Is your tv as retarded as your writung!!!!!!!!!!!!? Id i ot!
Peggy Sue -- but why? it has all the hallmarks for me of something that will last.
Trey -- obviously i don't close comments or how else would you get in? wth are you talking about.
Alex -- that's really a great comparison. no wonder i like Brie so much.
Aaron -- that's true but when someone is that young when they start working a lot i wonder how much autonomy they have in which films they're doing. It'll be curious to see what she does now that she's of age and a true leading lady via Brooklyn.
Hollywood legend has it that Natalie Wood called friend Bette Davis upon Joan Crawford's death, to offer condolences for an old colleague. There was a long pause. Then Bette replied, "Just because they're dead doesn't make them any nicer!"
That's how I feel about Nancy Reagan.
I really don't think Larson's win for Room will age well. So many people think Jacob outshined her or preferred Blanchett, Rampling, and Ronan's performances to hers. I've already seen so much questioning of why SHE swept all the awards.
I always believed that Jack Nicholson's portrayal of the Joker was so much better than Ledger's. JN should've been nominated as Supporting -
As for Michelle Pfieffer - she is nice to look at in Batman Returns - but Catwoman was originally offered to Annette Bening (right after THAT performance in The Grifters. She had to pass because she was pregnant.) Seems that every time that Michelle was onscreen, I'd always think 'Man, I wish Annette Bening was in that role...) Thanks, Warren!
If I had to guess, how the winning performances will be seen in 10 years:
Vikander (Will be forgotten and not considered the best in her category by a long shot. Mara and to a lesser extent Leigh and Winslet will have their supporters)
Rylance (Stallone will have his supporters but other than him, the other nominees won't be seen nearly as good as Rylance. Will be seen as a good win)
Larson (Will be seen as a good win but will be met with some hate by some due to how strong the other nominee's performances were)
DiCaprio (Will be seen as a pretty good win but will be met with some hate due to how divisive The Revenant is and because he didn't win for The Aviator or The Wolf of Wall Street instead. Fassbender will be seen as the better performance but considering how weak the competition was for this category and Redmayne and Cranston being straight up bad, this won't be looked down upon as badly as Pacino for Scent of a Woman like some are trying to argue)
hi: Supporting Actress: If the category fraud "thing" keeps building, neither Mara nor Vikander will have much in the way of supporters for winning the category, support for Leigh relies on how much people are willing to stomach The Hateful Eight (a movie only the most ardent Tarantino fans can really defend) and McAdams is too dull for it to have sat well. So, Winslet would be the majority choice of that field.
Rylance: He and Stallone are the only good performances in the category. The other three are BP coattails in the worst way. (On that Ruffal-Os curio, I made a joke about that performance and the other two are just as bizarre choices.)
Larson: The win will be acknowledged as, primarily, a make-up win for Short Term 12. As far as mainstream appreciation of the other nominees? JLaw's Joy will be resented as a perceived landmark blocker, Blanchett is a little too stylized and too similar to her Blue Jasmine work for a third win to make sensee and I'd argue the refusal to soften the ugliness undercuts the film in this case and Rampling is a lot of body language while not often being expressive and I'm not sure the mainstream would get her work being nomination worthy beyond legend acknowledgement. So, Ronan is likely the only one the mainstream would most often be steamed over losing.
DiCaprio: On actual performance merit, NO ONE will really defend this. They'll preface it by saying that, yes, it is better than Redmayne and Cranston (who should NOT have been there), but that it's almost entirely commitment and a dangerous precedent. (I dropped a comparison earlier that it's like food critics deciding that frosting is the best food.) Of the field, I'm guessing that, of that field, people will only stump for Damon or Fassbender if asked to leave aside symbolic factors and judge on performance merit alone.
Volvagia -- i feel like anyone who says that Cate's Carol work is too similar to her Blue Jasmine work hasn't seen both films. No offense!
I could not comment earlier, too. But I've saved my post:
Have you seen Brie Larson's list of top ten favorite movies at Criterion's website? Of course she's got some auteur lust. Google that for her comments on the movies, but I'll post here her top ten:
1 - A Woman Is a Woman, Godard
2 - The Exterminating Angel, Buñuel
3 - The Game, Fincher
4 - Opening Night, Cassavetes
(I can't resist posting her comment:
"Choosing a Cassavetes film was the hardest part of making this list. All his films have continued to inspire me—every aspect of them. He’s one of the only filmmakers where I will put on the DVD just to listen to his commentary. His ideals, his pursuit of the road less traveled—and traveled in a way that is curious, thought-provoking, and dangerous—have always excited me. I take his box set with me to every set. Each film has an incredible backstory, and leaves me thinking, How the hell did he pull that off?!
Gena Rowlands is absolutely stunning in every way in this film. And I love watching her and John act together, especially with her drunk during an improvised play for hundreds of extras who showed up because John took an ad out in the paper."
<3 <3 <3 <3 <3)
5 - Metropolitan, Stillman
6 - I am Curious - Yellow, Sjoman
7 - Naked, Leigh
8 - Red Desert, Antonioni
9 - Scenes from a Marriage, Bergman
10 - The Third Man, Reed
Now try to find another American actress who loves Godard. Good luck.
Since she is that naturalistic and an arthouse fan, I wish she could learn French to work with our modern Cassavetes, Arnaud Desplechin (acting opposite Mathieu Amalric, of course).
By that formula would you classify Kevin Spacey as a lead in Seven? Or Orson Welles in The Third Man?
@Volvagia
DiCaprio's performance isn't just physical commitment. You're writing off what he actually accomplished considering how underwritten his character was.
Nathaniel, thank you sir for answering my question. So cool. Your analysis of the performances is so well-stated. My favorite of the winners was Alicia's, even though I realize I'm in the minority. I did not like The Danish Girl, and I felt she really pulled off a miracle in that poorly conceived and directed project. She really was out there alone. I'm also considering The Diane Keaton Factor, in that Alicia was just brilliant in a completely opposite role in Ex Machina. She should have been nominated for lead for that film; I would have nixed Lawrence. So I'm probably letting her body of work influence my thinking, just as when Diane won for Annie Hall, but was also equally brilliant in Looking For Mr. Goodbar.
And thank you for the shoutout to Terrence Stamp. We all should kneel before Zod. If we are so lucky.
Oh Brie was just showing off. She was out in the woods on mushrooms and her assistant wrote that film analysis.
I have noticed that everyone is commenting on category fraud for Alicia, so you have to give props to Nathaniel for taking that commentary to the mainstream.
Leo has to mature and be more reckless, otherwise he will be forgotten just like Clooney (and to be honest, I don't see any of the other recent winners going on to legend status).
Honey I'll say it for you: Nancy Reagan's death is in the same category as Antonin Scalia's death and all we need now is Dick Cheney to croak and complete the axis of evil.
Favorite male objectification on film: definitely Michael Fassbender in "Fish Tank." Brad Pitt in Thelma & Louise is another good one. Both of them are nice, too-rare examples of the female gaze (upon the desirable male), even if only one of them was actually directed by a woman.
I, too, loved that little pat in "Captain America." The normally self-possessed Peggy Carter looked so adorably abashed for just a moment, it was delightful. And Chris Evans really does some first-rate, highly underrated work in what could be a very bland role.
If Brie actually compiled that list of films and auteurs, I'm really impressed. It seems like most actors have a very limited understanding of film history (cough, JLaw) and pedestrian taste in movies.
My favorite political actor (although I don't think she has ever run for office) is Queen Adjani.
Yay! So glad you answered my question and a top 10 about male objectification would be so fun! Thanks!
@Lola - sure, it wasn't JUST physical commitment if you want to be literal about it. But there wasn't a lot to his performance that wasn't already in the script. He wanted to protect his son, then SPOILERS he wanted revenge for his son, he got it, he felt kinda conflicted about it. The end.
DJDeeJay
He kept me invested in the story despite the very thin plot. He expressed a lot with his eyes and his acting was more poetic and subdued than usual. It doesn't matter to me that he didn't have much of a character in the script. Fassbender only delivered long and wordy monologues in Steve Jobs, does that lessen his performance? No. Agree to disagree, I know this place isn't very fond of DiCaprio so I won't bite anymore.
I desperately hope Brie Larson dabbles in directing.
I almost had the opportunity to vote for Glenda Jackson (I used to live the next constituency along).
She was a brilliant MP, commited back bencher and great speaker.
Now she's retired from the house she's back in the actong game - there's been some radio work for the BBC and she's doing King Lear at the New Vic soon. Something I literally cannot be more excited to see.
Sorry. Old Vic.
Weren't people re-writing Vikander's nomination to be for Ex Machina before she even won? I think people will just pretend it was for that and her stellar body of work in 2015 rather than for The Danish Girl specifically, which feels like it'd have been forgotten really quick if she hadn't won. Not that it won't be, but now it's part of the history books. For some reason.
Larson's seems like the kind of early win that'll be viewed dependent on how well her career turns out, which shouldn't be a problem, but this feels like a 2010 "I love this shortlist but how did she steamroll in a year this good?" thing.
Leo's will so be a career win looking back, and I think Rylance will just kind of be there? Every other nominee had their pockets of support, Stallone especially, but that lineup shook out so strangely by the end I wonder if the almost nominated Idris Elba, Jacob Tremblay, Michael Shannon, and Benicio del Toro just make this a fun "what if" kind of year given everything you guys said on the finale podcast. Anyone feasibly could've been a dark horse and the 6th place candidates seem like they could've won if they were there. Rylance just feels like a consensus pick and I'm sure that it'll be remembered that way.
Male objectification: Brad Davis in Querelle. And Midnight Express, for that matter.