Interview: Malgorzata Szumowska talks Oscar, Great Actors, and "Never Gonna Snow Again"

by Nathaniel R

Though it's easy to lose track of great cinema, especially in this strange time of virtual festivals and very little traditional moviegoing, you won't want to miss Never Gonna Snow Again, when it arrives this Spring. The Polish hopeful in this year's Oscar's International Feature Film race is a hard-to-describe elusive wonder about a Ukranian massage therapist (Stranger Thing's Alec Utgoff) who a suburban community becomes obsessed with. We were thrilled to jump on the phone with its talented 47 year-old director Malgorzata Szumowska. She's forged a long and international career for herself with award winning films like Elles (with Juliette Binoche), Body, the LGBT drama In the Name of, and her first English language picture last year, the cult drama The Other Lamb. 

She goes by 'Malgo'. "It's easier," she offers quickly, surely having heard her name mangled before. The director lives up to our expectations with a candid tongue and sharp sense of humor. Poland is a large country but she describes their film industry as small though not without its professional jealousy for those with international careers. The name directors, she adds, are "very supportive" of one another, name-checking three of the country's finest as we settle in for our chat: She mentions Jan Komasa (Corpus Christi) briefly; Pawel Pawlikowski (Cold War, Ida) is her very close friend -- she actually found him his lead novice actress for his Oscar-winning Ida; and shortly before our chat, Oscar nominee Agnieska Holland (Europa Europa, In Darkness) had called to catch up.

We're crossing our fingers that she soon joins their ranks at the Oscars. But Malgo appears to be less of a dreamer and more of a bemused pragmatist when it comes to careers and awards. "Some people think they'll make one film and then they'll be in Hollywood. It doesn't work that way. If you make a movie that wins an Oscar than, yes, but that's an accident, a lottery."  She's in it for the long haul and the work and eager to get on with her next project as we spoke...

[This interview has been edited for length and clarity]

Englert and Malgo at a film premiere

NATHANIEL: You've been directing for a long time but this is your first time co-directing with Michal Englert. Previously he's been in the co-writer and cinematographer. What brought that change on? 

MALGO: You know, we've been doing all of these movies together since we were 21 or 22 years old. It's a different approach than in the US or UK, cinematographers are very involved with the directors. It's like Ingmar Bergman and Sven Nykvist -- you never know who is responsible for what! But Michal always gives his heart and energy at every stage of the film. 

So the working process was the same? 

MALGO: More or less, yes. But on this one, it was more clear. The idea for this film came from Michal.  The massage therapist is based on a real character he knew who goes from one family to another family in a community. His involvement was bigger this time.

I'm actually shocked that Zenia is based on someone real because the most fascinating thing about the movie is that he's more of an idea than a character. 

Of course! The guy he knew inspired it but our character became an idea and a symbol. 

In a lot of your movies, you play with ideas about identity and shifting identities and what is actually real. The Other Lamb, Mug, this one. Is this something you're drawn to? 

Totally. You catch the subject matter well! It's kind of my obsession I must say. I've very often felt like we're living through a kind of illusion; the reality around us is our imagination. Our approach to things is so emotional and so subjective. I'm also very inspired by the fact that our life is very short and there is death around us. We are all going through that anxiety - what is going to be after we die? Maybe I'm exploring that space. The forest in the movie becomes like a space between dimensions. 

I love how mysterious the movie is but I wonder about how you work with an actor on something this slippery. Alec Utgoff's character has to be everything to all people. He's playing a concept. I can't imagine!  

MALGO: It's very difficult. We struggled with that a lot. Alec is super talented but he had never worked on a proejct like this before. Suddenly I'm coming to him saying 'I want to make a film but I don't know how to explain what it's about because it's intuitive and dirven by instinct. You're a symbol. You're a devil. You're an angel. You're young. You're...' -- his first reaction was panic.

When I introduced him to the ballet coach he was totally shocked.  'Oh my god now you want me to dance? Malgo, please don't ask me to sing!!!'  He was so afraid I was going to keep inventing more things.

He's quite fantastic in the movie!

I was so driven by him -- 'Wow he's so amazing. We have to use that!'

i would have never thought of him for a role like this but imagination in casting is such a pleasure. You've worked with a lot of great actresses, too: Juliette Binoche, Raffey Cassidy, Agata Kulesza.

I have been very lucky with actors. There is a chemistry between me and a good actor. But they have to be good. If someone is not amazing then I immediately have conflict.

[Laughs]

Malgo and Juliette Binoche on the set of "Elles"

MALGO: I want only the best and if they're not willing to give it to me, I'm kind of difficult.  I cannot reveal now but I'm going to start shooting very soon with one of the best actors ever. I'm so proud that I convinced her to work with me. Actors are a little bit anxious on the first day but then they see what I'm doing and they get confident. Binoche really wants to make another movie with me because she feels I reveal things about her that others haven't.

That's such a compliment!

[Before shooting] I like to spend time with them, private situations like going shopping or to dinner. I observe their energy. What kind of people they are. I'm trying to work with the natural inside them. I'm focused on finding the truth. When I'm working I'm looking at the monitor or i'm standing by the camera and I'm only asking myself one thing 'is this truthful?' For me it's easy to judge.

Interesting.

Alec Utgoff in "Never Gonna Snow Again"

MALGO: Actors feel comfortable with me but it's better when I don't say anything. Everyone imitates my high voice and accent [exagerrates her own pitch and accent] 'I didn't like it! I didn't like it!'  If I dont say anything it means it's perfect. [Pause] I'm not easy to work with. [Laughter]

You've been directing features for 20 years now and you're kind of prolific! Do young directors come to you for advice or do you mentor? 

Yes! I have been a superviser on a few features including an award-winning LGBT film. Young directors come to me but what they're actually asking me about is how to have an international career. Poland is very big country but culture-wise, people are dreaming of going outside.

I don't have a recipe for that because my way is very long. I started with short films. You just go higher and higher. Some people think they'll make one film and then they'll be in Hollywood. It doesn't work that way. If you make a movie that wins an oscar than, yes, but that's an accident, a lottery.  If you look at the huge directors they're all in their 40s, 50s, or 60s. By then you have less anxiety and you know more about what you're doing and what you want to do.

Utgoff with Polish star Agata Kulesza (Ida, Cold War)

Was it a surprise for you when Never Gonna Snow Again was named the Oscar submission?

MALGO:  I kind of expected to be chosen, probably because it premiered at Venice and played Telluride.  Many people want to work with me now. But we can't really promote it.

If it weren't for the pandemic it would have been a dream situation! Due to the pandemic, it is not. 

Never Gonna Snow Again will be released by Kino Lorber theatrically and on VOD in the Spring of 2021. The 15 finalists for Best International Feature Film will be announced Tuesday, February 9th. 

Comments

[Jesus Alonso]

Off topic... if "WandaVision" doesn't sweep the TV awards next year... it would be a travesty. What a groundbreaking, exciting show, edge-of-your-seat... yes, I just saw the 5th episode, and again, when I thought they couldn't blow my mind even more, they just delivered probably the biggest and most important - even industry wise - cliffhanger in TV history. Wow. Really wow.

(now back to topic, don't let anyone spoil this series, it's a crime)

[Steve G]

Great interview. This is one of the potential International film nominees this year that I'm most intrigued to see.