Oscar Volley: Should music be judged outside of the film for Best Original Score?
Monday, January 31, 2022 at 1:00PM Continuing our Oscar Volley series at The Film Experience. Abe Friedtanzer and Timothy Lyons on Best Original Score
Abe Friedtanzer: The Best Original Score category is an interesting one since we have only fifteen films left in consideration, which in one way is great because it's a smaller field from which to predict but also means that some terrific soundtracks are no longer in contention. I like to take the opportunity to listen to as many of the scores as I can after I see the films, to see if there's anything I pick up on or enjoy more as I hear them in a different context. This year, that has been beneficial for a film I didn't love, Don't Look Up, since Nicholas Britell's orchestrations really are a marvel, and also for Being the Ricardos, which reminded me that Daniel Pemberton's music drove the rhythm of the story just as much as Aaron Sorkin's script. I'm also intrigued by the inclusion of Candyman on the finalist list. I generally avoid horror films but the score is quite haunting. There's no chance it shows up, but it's good to see that voters are at least listening to a variety of films! My main issue has been with The Harder They Fall, a film I liked a lot but where I have trouble differentiating between score and song. That's also true for Encanto.
Do you think songs are a disadvantage or actually more likely to get voters to give the music love?
Timothy Lyons: Well hello again Abe, I think the wins for the first three Disney renaissance films in a single Original Score field are proof positive that a song score is hardly a DIS-advantage. I do feel that if you can make it this far, to the finalist list, the most important thing for voters-at-large is that “music is happening” in some easily recognisable form. I don’t know whether it’s enough to get Encanto across the line though since you’ve got too many contenders with the music branch’s two favourite elements combined: Recognisable names + Best Picture heat.
I completely co-sign your feelings on Britell. Don’t Look Up is so antagonistic to its audience until the final emotional punch that it took listening to the score isolated from its source to appreciate what was happening musically. This brings up an interesting conversation on how scores are/should be judged. Does Britell theoretically deserve a mention because of the pure quality of his work separated from the source or can we only judge based on how it appears in-film?
ABE: That's an interesting question, and one that is even more applicable to the Original Song category. Though I do remember being upset with myself a few years ago when I saw every film nominated in every category EXCEPT the songs, and felt out of the loop when the song from The Hunting Ground was performed at the Oscars. I do believe that the quality of a score can be considered separately from the quality of a film, just as visual effects or makeup can excel in a bad movie and a performance can be much better or worse than the film that houses it. I'm not sure I have a great example of a past nominee I can cite, but I did like the music from my least favorite movie of 2020, Shadow in the Cloud, and have listened to it even after tying to forget the experience of watching the film.
Another consideration for this category is the Best Picture Boost, which hasn't been all that influential in recent years. But I think King Richard is likely to be a real beneficiary of that this year, since other possibilities in the top race, like The Tragedy of Macbeth and Spencer have a better shot here rather than the other way around. To me, two surefire Best Picture nominees, Dune and The Power of the Dog are the only locks here. What do you think is likeliest to join them?
TIMOTHY: I have to laugh that you mentioned Shadow in the Cloud as I only watched that last week in prep for listening to an episode of "How Did This Get Made?" What a strange ride from first ghost plane to last gremlin brawl. Agree that its score is a great listening experience separate from the movie and this kind of gets me to my point. It’s totally up to interpretation but I don’t think you should necessarily separate the quality of the individual work from the film on every occasion. It’s like the argument that Phantom Thread contains great costume design but terrible clothes - it’s a worthy winner because of how it fits within the context of the film. Don’t Look Up has some amazing music but it’s sometimes so grating in context that I don’t believe it should be rightly considered for "Best".
Maybe it’s because music is generally so woven into the fabric of the film throughout that I feel this way so specifically about this category in particular. Hans Zimmer and Dune is a great example. I listened to the soundtrack before watching the film and found it borderline unlistenable - it felt like a variation on his usual non-melodic rumblings and explosions of bass tone. Within context however, it adds so much to the experience that I couldn’t imagine the film without it and I am completely behind its inclusion. I do think Dune is our #1 followed by Jonny Greenwood for Power of the Dog so we agree on top two. I think Britell is next based on film, name and presence within the movie and then I’m feeling Desplat (The French Dispatch) and Iglesias (Parallel Mothers) or Burwell (Tragedy of Macbeth). Iglesias may be wishful thinking based on my fondness for his work here but he also got in for The Kite Runner so who knows? I’d love to see Spencer nominated in this category but am wary to predict a Greenwood double-dip and then there’s The Green Knight which is headed for a complete shut out but should by all rights be considered a front runner across all crafts not least for Daniel Hart’s haunting score. Anyway, I'm rambling. Abe, where are you on predix, preferences and anything you think should have made the bake-off?
ABE: Lots to address here. First, to your point of separating a score from the film, I always think back to Notes on a Scandal, which I (possibly correctly) remember as having a loud and distracting score. I'm a big Philip Glass fan, but I was irritated when it got nominated. I saw Dune before listening to the soundtrack, and I was fortunate enough to see it in a theater with excellent acoustics, so it's forever part of the experience for me. I vividly remember the opening credits of Parallel Mothers and Iglesias' music, but I don't see him -- or the film - being popular enough to get in, though maybe the film will surprise in a few categories like Best Actress. I was not fond of The Green Knight at all but I object least to its music. Spencer makes some sense but it's hard to know how to judge that film's chances given Kristen Stewart's SAG snub. I'm happy to include it here, and I think that Desplat is probably a good bet for The French Dispatch, though I'm forever annoyed that The Grand Budapest Hotel, a film that I did think was pretty good, won all the awards that Moonrise Kingdom should have a few years earlier.
Is there anything more frustrating than when a great film is only honored for specific elements and not what you think is best about it? The shortlist misses that I'm lamenting are Benedetta, Last Night in Soho, and a movie I never in a million years would have expected to see honored: Army of Thieves. Since they're out of contention - Last Night in Soho would have been the only one with a shot anyway.
Predictions. I think I'm looking at
- Tragedy of Macbeth (Burwell)
- Dune (Zimmer)
- ...a Greenwood double-dip
- Spencer
- Power of the Dog
...and though its vulnerable - The French Dispatch (Desplat)
But as I write that I realize I'm not including Being the Ricardos or a film that was all over the shortlist, No Time to Die, plus you were set, however reluctantly, on Britell's chances for Don't Look Up. Which of those do you think are most competitive, and what other possibilities am I underestimating?
TIMOTHY: I maintain Notes on a Scandal got in based on the overall awards friendliness of the film itself. If Glass was to be included that year it should have been for The Illusionist. Now, sorry I can’t join you on your feelings about Moonrise Kingdom v Budapest Hotel. Kingdom remains my least favourite and the most cloyingly self aware of Wes Anderson films but I thought Hotel was an utter joy. I think French Dispatch is going to get in for Production Design as well as here so it’s not going to be a one-and-done but I agree that its score is one of its least compelling elements. Desplat is becoming a tad repetitive and vanilla for my liking at this stage in his career. Going riiiiiiight back to the beginning of our convo, there’s an argument to be made for Encanto’s inclusion. It’s obviously being driven by the songs but its soundtrack is having its moment right now so I don’t think it would be the biggest shock to see it make the list. As for other contenders, No Time To Die could feasibly make it for sure. Despised Being the Ricardos but its music was certainly pleasant enough and it fits the bill for voters after a nostalgic old-Hollywood vibe.
Of the exclusions to the finalist list, I’m most saddened by the omission of Devonte Hyne’s score for Passing - period appropriate but also so integral to the mournful and slightly alien feel to that film. Will also second your feelings on Last Night In Soho. One film that Nathaniel is high on in this category that neither of us have mentioned is The Last Duel. I’m a fan of its percussive elements mixed with chorus and organ (echoes of Interstellar no?) but I’m not sure it’s quite distinguished enough to make it through for a film which flopped and for a never-nominated Harry Gregson-Williams. What are your thoughts here Abe and are we ready to talk a potential winner? Is Zimmer finally capturing that bookend to join his win for The Lion King or is Greenwood coming for that trophy?
ABE: I was fortunate to get to see No Time to Die in a theater (with Nathaniel, actually, though I think I enjoyed it much more than him) and so the music was an immersive part of that one too. I don't think that it's fair for me to consider which of these I saw on a big screen and which I didn't, though a quick count tells me that it's 12/14 (no Candyman sorry), with The Harder They Fall and The Last Duel the only home watches. That said, I saw The French Dispatch and King Richard at a drive-in with the sound on my car radio, so where do you rank that? About The Last Duel, I honestly don't remember the score at all, though I've been listening to it as I type this message to refresh my memory. I think the reception to that one has been lukewarm and inconsistent, and while Da 5 Bloods got in only for original score after missing everywhere else, I don't think I'd equate these two movies, especially with Ridley Scott's other film this year looking like it's going to be warmly embraced. I do think it's possible that Greenwood could win since The Power of the Dog is looking like our Best Picture winner at the moment, not that triumphing there equals a win in this category. Being a double nominee also doesn't cancel his chances out since that happens pretty often.
I do want to nervously sound one alarm that worries me. When First Man won the Golden Globe in this category and was looking like a frontrunner for the Oscar (in this category) it didn't even get nominated. That one still hurts. I don't think that Dune is in the same position at all, but I don't want to be too overconfident about journeys into space. I do also think that Carter Burwell is a threat to win if he gets nominated for The Tragedy of Macbeth. It's a formidable score and the man has only ever been nominated for two Oscars in his entire career, which is just crazy. Have you listened to Fargo or A Serious Man, or so many other works of his? Do you think he could win if he gets in? The fate of that movie as a whole is still up in the air.
TIMOTHY: I envy you seeing so many of these on the big screen. Spikes in COVID cases here in Australia really spoiled the chances to make it to cinemas. Anyways, I always resist using the word narrative when it comes to awards but there’s certainly a path for Burwell to win should he be nominated. First and foremost, he does superbly expressive work on Macbeth that is both referential to the style the film is trying to emulate while still being wholly its own animal. He is definitely ‘overdue’ but craft categories are a little more resistant to ‘correcting’ their past wrongs as Thomas Newman would attest in this particular category. I think if Burwell wins it will be based more on the score’s place in context. In a film that wears its craft on its sleeve, the score is allowed a certain space and pride of place. It is used relatively sparingly and deliberately in a way that will (for better or worse) be obvious to voters.
I could go on forever about how stingy the Academy has been with Burwell - Carol was his first nomination?!?!? And yes regardless of the immense power of the work itself, how was Fargo not an easy get in its year based on everything the picture itself had going on awards-wise? I’d also chuck in Miller’s Crossing along with your shoutout to A Serious Man.
Now back to the category at hand. I don’t think Dune is in trouble for the nom but the win…… I’m not seeing it in. Zimmer isn’t really doing anything here he hasn’t been doing elsewhere for the last decade and more. It works amazingly well in the film but if he manages a win it will be because we don’t have an Up or Soul level obvious favourite and enough votes may just siphon off to the veteran. I’m currently predicting Power of the Dog based on exactly what you mentioned: Best Picture heat. I agree that this isn’t always a factor in the win but when combined with how the score is deployed in-film, it’s distinctiveness and honestly the listenability of the music on album, I’m just really feeling it. It’s not un-challenging stuff but much more tuneful than Dune.
I think I’m pretty settled now on predicting these five:
- The Power of the Dog
- Dune
- The French Dispatch
- Don’t Look Up
- Tragedy of Macbeth
Is there another major challenger I’m not seeing that could actually eke out a win or are we roughly in the same boat?
ABE: It seems like we could spend this entire series talking about who deserves to have been a nominee time and time again - a great plan for a future back-and-forth. I see your list but mine stays the same, though I'm waffling between Being the Ricardos and The French Dispatch for the fifth slot. I see Dune winning this because I think it's going to sweep the technical categories, and though The Power of the Dog is the frontrunner right now for Best Picture, that could all change.
TIMOTHY: Maybe I’m just not feeling the widespread passion for Dune and feel like it has to slip somewhere. Even Mad Max Fury Road, a film with far more passionate fans couldn’t totally sweep its below-the-line noms. Then again, at this stage Dune could just as easily take out every craft/tech category minus Song and go home with a whopping eight trophies. That would definitely be something! We shall see.
Let’s pass it to the readers. What do y’all think? Is Dune or Dog taking the Oscars? Do you think we'll have a surprise contender in this category?
Reader Comments (9)
The Green Knight score made it into my Spotify Wrapped top 5 last year so I am mourning that snub in advance.
I think it should be in the way it serves the film and the story. Same with song... I find it heartbreakig that the following songs did not win - and in the most cases, were not even nominated!
- Always look on the Bright Side of Life, Monty Python and the Holy Grail
- Blame Canada, South Park: Bigger, Longer and Uncut
- Kazakhstan Anthem, Borat
- Everything is Awesome, The LEGO Movie
- Finest Girl (Ben Laden Song), Popstar: Never Stop Never Stopping (or "I am Humble", and a pity "F**k Off" was a deleted scene, it is hilariously excellent)
- Husavik, Eurovision Song Contest: The Story of Fire Saga
- The Great Beyond, Sausage Party
... just off the top of my head.
We will not tolerate any NOTES ON A SCANDAL slander on this blog!! lol
Jesus
And what about "I'm So Ronery", "America, Fuck Yeah!" and "Everybody Has AIDS" from Team America: World Police, and "Skeet Surfin'" from Top Secret!?
I just wish the category would stop being so stringent about what constitutes "original." For example, my favorite score of this year is Giacchino's for No Way Home. It has everything: iconic themes, emotional beats that really land, and the X factor of weaving together several different scores/tones from different franchises and making it all cohesive. But it's not eligible because a great deal of it hails from previous films. Booo.
On a different note, yes, let's add two new categories: BEST STUNTS and BEST SOUNDTRACK.
I agree it should be regarded in context within the film itself and not separate. Then it’s just the song slapped on the end credits.
A selection from Legends of The Fall (“The Ludlows”) came on one of my playlists today. I remembered the movie coming out in ‘94 and of course Lion King won score that year. But when I looked up the nominees Legends of The Fall wasn’t even nominated for score. Crazy.
A fascinating question to pose and one with no easy answers. Speaking from my own taste and experience, I think scores should be judged according to their success as accents to the editing beats, to the visual rhythms and moods, as amplifiers for the souls of the characters. A score should function as a translation of the hearts of the characters. A great score can nearly always be listened to and appreciated as a standalone orchestral work, but it should be judged, in the doling out of awards, according to how it burnishes the film and audio mix. When I consider my favorite scores of the 90s (the decade in which I fell in love with cinema) -- Thomas Newman's Little Women, Trevor Jones's and Randy Edelman's The Last of the Mohicans, Adrian Johnston's original pieces for Jude, Carter Burwell's Waterland, John Williams's Schindler's List -- my love of them is knitted entirely up with how they work in collaboration with performance and image. My favorite scores thus far from 2021 are The Power of the Dog, The Green Knight, Passing, The Tragedy of Macbeth and Pig.
Imagine time traveling to 1995 and telling an alt-rock kid (as I was) that Trent Reznor and Jonny Greenwood would be winning Oscars for Best Original Score in consecutive years. (Not that Greenwood has it in the bag, but I do agree he at least seems to be a light favorite at the moment.)
Also, I just want to say since it was only mentioned in passing here that the Candyman score is actually really good, and I was pleasantly surprised by its inclusion on the longlist. I firmly believe Phillip Glass (who was also mentioned in this discussion) should have been nominated for the original back in 1992, and while I thought the new movie was just so-so overall (but still better than a lot of other recent horror reboots), the score was on point, paying just enough homage to Glass to make it feel like a followup but still very much its own thing. (The production design is also really good in the movie, but that’s for another conversation.)