Oscar Volleys: Best International Film aka “Emilia Pérez” vs. the World
Friday, February 21, 2025 at 10:00AM The Oscar Volleys are back for some post-nomination talks. Today, Eric Blume and Nathaniel Rogers discuss Best International Film...
EMILIA PÉREZ | © Netflix
ERIC: Nathaniel, what fun to have you all to myself to discuss the nominees for Best International Film (which I sometimes still call Best Foreign Film, because that's been in my brain too long). I think we have five pretty terrific nominees this year. Before we get into their Oscar-ability, what is your personal take across the five films? I wouldn't be mad at a ranking!
NATHANIEL: I share the same nomenclature waffling but we both were Oscar watching since the 1980s so who can blame us?...
Anyway, I prefer Best International even if it's misleading --aren't most movie international now? It's increasingly common to see two to three to five or more countries credited on a film. I don't know much about the business side of cinema but this suggests that every movie financed is a miracle of international diplomacy and/or multilingual schmoozing.
I agree that the list overall is fairly strong but I can't say it's the five I would have chosen. I was pissed (though not surprised) to see Vermiglio (Italy) missing since I would have loved to see it win the category. I would have also been happy to see Armand (Norway), How to Make Millions Before Grandma Dies (Thailand), or Universal Language (Canada) nominated. Of the contenders still standing I'd rank them like so...
FLOW | © Janus Films
01) FLOW (Latvia)
The number one placement isn't because I'm a crazy cat lady, though I am, but because my eyes were wide the entire film. It delighted me on a visual and sonic level, held me dramatically, and moved me not just emotionally but spiritually (a rare feat).
02) I'M STILL HERE (Brazil)
I kept flip-flopping between Germany's entry and this one for second position but in the end I'm a sucker for great actressings, happy screen families that feel authentic (rare!), and emotional stickiness. So, this wins (if just by a small margin).
03) THE SEED OF THE SACRED FIG (Germany)
Sacred Fig is more cinematically impressive than the Brazilian drama but I'm far less likely to watch it again which is what breaks the tie. Plus, I have one major issue: the final act. After a masterful slow burn, the boil comes just as you need it to. But then it just keeps boiling for another hour. It's a bit like that moment in a thriller when the tea kettle goes off (it's so satisfying viscerally because you're waiting for it and dreading it simultaneously) indicating scary climax! Only this tea kettle keeps shrieking for another hour, so it's not so much "CLIMAX!" but "you've entered the final act" and guess which is the more exciting statements.
04) THE GIRL WITH THE NEEDLE (Denmark)
i can't argue against Trine Dyrholm (one of my favorite actresses) or the astounding cinematography. It's quite disappointing that this would be the year the Cinematography branch chose to not be swayed by black and white, which they usually go for even if it’s merely okay. But in the end, this is Misery Porn... which, well, not my favorite genre.
05) EMILIA PÉREZ (France)
So much has been said. I admire a big swing but if you don't actually hit the ball, it's still a strike. I HATE rooting against a musical or against France (they haven't won in so long!) but here we are.
Your turn!
ERIC: Always love hearing your perspective. I agree that Vermiglio would have been an amazing entrant and winner (it's sublime), even if we're aligned slightly differently on our specific order. I think my order would go The Seed of the Sacred Fig, Emilia Pérez, I'm Still Here, Flow, and The Girl with the Needle...but I think all five films are really interesting and compelling, and, more importantly, interesting and compelling in different ways.
THE SEED OF THE SACRED FIG | © NEON Rated
Personally, I don't know how The Seed of the Sacred Fig hasn't been winning everything. It's dense, morally complex, perfectly paced to its weirdly powerful final stretch where it almost becomes an action film(!). Plus, it has the unbelievable "narrative" of how it was shot, how it was released, how the actors cannot leave the country because of it, etc. There certainly is no more dangerous or scathing film in the mix, a movie where people quite literally put their lives on the line to make it. And more importantly, it delivers and reveals itself slowly and cumulatively...the story and the ideas keep growing richer and bigger.
I feel Audiard does hit the ball in what is not just a big swing but a COLOSSAL one, but that argument is for another time. Flow is such a ravishing movie and I had a similar viewing experience to yours, but I just wanted a couple more interesting ideas in it, personally. It just felt like there wasn't a lot of there there. At the same time, I appreciated that the film didn't strain for larger meaning. It's a wonderful film and I don't feel the need to say anything negative about it (although I do think "cat people" like it a *little* more than everyone else). I'm with you 100% on The Girl with the Needle, misery porn indeed, which is far far and away my least favorite kind of porn. But stark and stirring, so much expert craftsmanship there.
And I'm going to do a bit of a hot take on I'm Still Here. It's technically superb...I loved it. It's involving, we have Torres' superb central performance, and the dynamics they capture with the family are astounding (those young actors are insanely good). BUT, I also found the movie curiously unexciting. I haven't thought about it for one second since seeing it, and I was legit bored for two or three stretches of the movie. The pacing seemed sluggish and the movie felt overlong and flabby to me? Again, I don't want to argue against it...it's in my top 20, and I'm thrilled that it's a hit, but I am a bit perplexed at the rapturous reception it's gotten?
NATHANIEL: Your explanation as to why Seed of the Sacred Fig tops your list is solid. You're absolutely right that the story and the idea keep growing richer and bigger (as the chasm widens between family members, too) and I should give it more credit for that. I just got impatient though in that final hour -- it's the only time in the movie where Mohammad Rasoulof and his editor fumble a bit with their incredibly tight grasp on pacing. But, otherwise as with The Brutalist, I didn't mind the length at all since the ideas and characters and plot elements were all so involving.
Pacing really is an art a skill and a discipline that too few filmmakers have. It's like it's been trained out of them in the past couple of decades now that theatrical moviegoing has declined. Remember in the 80s how they used to talk about how much more money you could earn per day at the box office if you were slightly shorter? The decline of single screen theaters and of highly anticipated eventual TV airings paired with the rise of the multiplex where the same movie is on a third of the screens and, later, the rise of streaming all killed the 'need' to keep it tight so now directors don't even try! If you rest you rust so the economy of storytelling was lost.
I'M STILL HERE | © Sony Pictures Classics
TANGENT! Sort of. But you did say that I'm Still Here was overlong and flabby and I agree (even though I really liked it).
Speaking of movies with pacing problems... Emilia Pérez! Since you liked it a lot I wonder if you could conjecture about why it initially captivated Hollywood so much? It's gotten so much praise for being wildly original but honestly there are a LOT of movies in the world --and at least a handful each year -- which could make that claim and Oscar rarely notices or cares about them; originality isn't very "Oscar bait" to be frank. I didn't really understand how it took hold to such an extent. Is Cannes really that influential now that the Academy's membership has expanded? I would think 13 nominations insane even if I had loved the movie... it's scary to think how close it probably got to breaking the all-time record. Just throw Selena Gomez in there and Best Costume Design for Zoë's red suit and it would have!
I had two huge issues with it that it couldn't recover from even as I liked its audacity and was captivated by a few key scenes. First, I think it's a terrible musical (the songs aren't memorable and the titular character can't sing) and I found a lot of the character motivations and arcs highly suspect and implausible and even distasteful at times. Still it's been so very dominant that for a time I was super curious as to what might actually win the category in a year where it mysteriously vanished.
But then on Oscar nomination morning, I'm Still Here answered the question rather definitively. I am almost always bored by the internet's obsession with Oscar-scandals (I LOVE talking movies but have never cared that much about any of the offscreen antics of the people that make them) but I do wonder why --if people suddenly want to distance themselves from Emilia Pérez-- that it's maintained such a strong grip on Supporting Actress, Best International Feature, and Best Original Song ?
ERIC: One more thing to add to your thoughts on the last hour of Sacred Fig. Watching it, I thought the film *was* losing its way in that last set piece at the father's home. I kept thinking, has this guy lost his mind? where can he possibly imagine this ending? It took me a beat to see that that was exactly the point: these men who are losing power, who are having other people and systems (in this case, the women in his life) challenge his power and THE system, they literally lose their fucking minds. This is obviously the case politically in the USA right now. Something goes off in these people, and they lose all reason, going against even the people they love the most. That final fast/slow/fast set piece is Rasoulof’s coup de theatre: a man literally buried by the ruins of the past. The movie kind of uncorked me in a way I can't quite explain, so I was held, even in a confused way that I needed to work out later.
EMILIA PÉREZ | © Netflix
Sweet Nathaniel, I could truly go on for pages about the things I think are fantastic about Emilia Pérez, but I really would prefer to demur, because the haters are not going to listen to anything positive about the film, and I love when the comments here are about discourse, not about insults. But I will say that the legion of online film voices who scream the loudest about their hatred of it are truly only a small portion of people who have seen this film. There is another legion of people who *love* Emilia Pérez, who aren't voicing their every thought on the internet every five minutes.
There are a lot of famous, deeply respected directors who have voiced their love for the film, as well as many revered actors. In short, there is a divide of opinion here from people in the industry who make films, and online “critics” who watch it. I’ll take heat for this, but you asked me to explain why the movie has caught on in the industry…and I think the industry folks who regularly make movies know what a colossal swing it is across the board. It’s the movie they all wished they had worked on because it’s just so out there and so blatantly uncommercial and unique.
I don't really think of the film as a "musical" because it doesn't do what musicals do (use song to develop character or advance plot). To me, it's a film with music that uses that musical theater/film "take off point" of when characters can't contain themselves with words and need to express in song. And I think it also sometimes uses the language of moving people through time and space in the way musicals do. The songs aren't great, but then several songs in Wicked aren't great, either, and that is really a musical in the traditional sense.
To your point, I think the passion for the film comes from the passion Audiard has for the material. The movie has its heart in its throat in the way French New Wave movies did. If you go back and watch all of those classics (Breathless, Masculin/Féminin, etc.), they too are messy in some of the same ways Emilia Pérez messy. But the immediacy of the filmmaking, the "unsafe" nature of it, the sheer thrill of it, the surprise of it, the balls of it...I think that's what the industry is responding to. It's sort of "pure cinema" in the way that term was coined in the 60s.
EMILIA PÉREZ | © Netflix
Let me know your thoughts on all this, and then we can get to who will win...
NATHANIEL: Hmmm. To me that argument about why you don't think of it as a musical is exactly why I kept asking myself 'why is this a musical?'. I think musicals are very hard to make so it's not a particular surprise that Audiard isn't great at it but I always wish people would respect the genre enough to think 'should I actually make a musical? Do I have the chops for it? What muscles do I need to discover to pull it off?'. I'm also just fine with messiness if the messiness comes from passion and experimentation. I see the latter in the picture but not the former. Why this story? Why a musical? Why these characters?
I was never convinced by the movie, never understood why Audiard wanted to make it. I felt all this before it became a "cause" to hate on the movie. I was a fan of Audiard early on (Read My Lips, The Beat That My Heart Skipped) and it's tough for me to connect the dots between what's come before and this.
As to the 'pure cinema' ...I hear you and thanks for putting all that into words. I do believe that's what the industry is responding to. My question is really just 'why is it this movie that got them excited about bold risks when there are movies every year that offer immediacy and experimentation and routinely get ignored beyond some appreciative reviews. But anyway, there was already a SPLIT DECISION so let's move on to punditry.
I think Emilia Pérez will win. Even though it's my least favorite of the nominees I have an easy way to be happy about its win: I have always been a fan of French cinema and this will finally end their long very atypical drought. Indochine (1992) was a long time ago, now!
EMILIA PÉREZ | © Netflix
ERIC: There aren't many people whose analysis I respect more than yours, so I enjoy this debate with you and share your frustration with it not being a "good musical"...I just thought it was a weird smash-up of not only genre, but hybrids of genre, and it all clicked for me.
I think Emilia Pérez will win as well. The industry clearly loves the film to the tune of 13 nominations, and I think they will want to reward it here. It seems irrefutable that Karla Sofía Gascón is an asshole in the grand Caitlin Jenner manner, but I think passion for the movie itself will manifest itself in one (or three) big wins.
Although I wouldn't be surprised if I'm Still Here takes it. This category like most others are about getting eyeballs on the film...and they are on that film for sure. It'd make a worthy winner as well, of course. But yes, the Francophile and French cinephile in me has wanted a win for the country for a long time as well.
Any final thoughts?
NATHANIEL: That's it for me on the race. But my final thought is that I hope more people see the film that is surely coming in last place: The Girl With the Needle. It's not because I wholeheartedly recommend it (again, I don't: misery porn) but that it is so potently crafted that I'm very excited to see the follow up picture from practically everyone involved from the set decorator to the cinematographer to the actors to the title credits designer and on and on...
THE GIRL WITH THE NEEDLE | © MUBI
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Reader Comments (14)
I was worryied The Girl With the Needle was simplified as "misery porn" to the point that is basically the only thing you said about it, but I never thought that tag come from this site
The funny thing is that Emilia Perez is more misery porn than the Denmark film. Think about it: the principal characters live in comodate places and is convenient to them have around people that suffers, and that's the reason the movie have been succesful in the artistic comunity; is more digestible to pretend speak of social problems trough a distant (even clasist) view from an outsider than perceive a story with no filter and all the dirt that implies
I'm also really disappointed that the only thing you could muster up for The Girl with the Needle was that it's "misery porn". Yes, it's a film that delves into the lives of people whose live's seem hopeless, but it also takes on interesting questions about whether life is worth living and how compassion can be found in the most unexpected places, particularly in what we may deem as miserable. Trine Dyrholm is amazing in it, but so is Vic Carmen Sonne in the lead role, playing a woman who is negotiating between her own survival instincts and whether she has the capability to be compassionate. It's also impeccably shot and I would say it's my favorite of the five films nominated in this category because it's the one that has stuck with me the longest (though I also love Flow and thought The Seed of the Sacred Fig to be an essential piece of cinema).
I was lukewarm on I'm Still Here, mostly because the film deflates toward the end and it feels like a typical Oscar bait film in which something horrible happened and the film builds up to a moment of triumph where that wrongdoing was eventually addressed. I know it's based on a true story, but the way the film framed wasn't all that interesting to me. Fernanda Torres is amazing, though, and I really liked the dynamic within the family and the way it carved out the relationships of its individual members (even though at one point, when we find out something about her son Marcelo, I realized I was a bit more interested in what happened to him.
As for Emilia Pérez: I don't hate it (I do, in fact, appreciate its swings), but it is the weakest of the bunch.
Always fascinating to hear these conversations and appreciate the different points of view, especially on diverging perspectives.
I need to catch Seed of Sacred Fig and I'm Still Here, which I'm very excited for, but unsurprisingly so far not that impressed with this group. Tends to happen that it feels as if Oscar leaves a much more exciting lineup on the margins looking in.
A bit tired however of the argument that the industry loves Emilia Pérez because they know more about film and so they must "get it" while the "online trolls" don't. It's condescending and borderline racist. There's been several notable Latine filmmakers and people from the industry, including many well respected Latine (not to mention LGQBT+) writers and critics who have expressed their concerns and displeasure with the film's issues on its handling on big themes. It's quite possible to like the film and comment on it without going that route. To reduce them that way is a bad look.
Hard to feel bad for France for not winning an Oscar since 1992 when it's literally the most nominated country in International Feature Film (41) and second with most wins (12).
Meanwhile, there's still a plethora of countries - a lot of them with rich cinemas and predominantly non-White population - that still struggle to get nominated, let alone win.
That the number of nominated films from African countries (10) and Southeast Asian countries (8) are still less than the wins for France is absurd.
Ale -- I was going to say that the industry also loved BOHEMIAN RHAPSODY, but that doesn't mean it's a good film. Hell, there are so many Oscar-beloved films from the past that were obviously adored by the industry but that doesn't mean they're good art. And I think we could all agree with that.
Does it help or hurt I'm Still Here that it's only available in theaters now and not on VOD/streaming? Maybe a little of both?
FLOW (Latvia) -- I didn't care much about the story or the animation. It felt like watching the cut scenes of a PS2 game. I'll take this over The Wild Robot any day, though.
I'M STILL HERE (Brazil) -- It's an ok film. Great cinematography and art direction. It really captures the times and nostalgia. Torres is good, but her character is extremely limited to this woman that never ever shows her true emotions, and it's not done in an interesting way, but in a way that, to me, hinders the narrative. It makes the whole thing feel far more "light hearted" (for lack of a better word) than it should. It doesn't hold a candle to other similar movies like The Official Story.
THE SEED OF THE SACRED FIG (Germany) -- It's a very solid film. Well constructed, thought-provoking. It runs a little long and the climax verges on being a bit silly. A case where the movie existing is very important but the movie itself could be a slightly better. Still, one of 2024's best.
THE GIRL WITH THE NEEDLE (Denmark) -- Disagree that this is only misery porn. It's an incredibly well shot, written, directed and acted film that poses many interesting questions and dares to speak about these things,without sugarcoating anything. To me this is the clear winner and should've gotten a supporting actress and cinematography nomination, at the very least.
EMILIA PÉREZ (France) -- It's nowhere near as bad or offensive as people are saying, and they need to get over it. I'll take this big swing over the flat, superficial, artificial, Disney-esque Wicked any day. Is it worth 13 nominations? No. Not at all. But I can't stand hating on something because it's a trending topic. They did the same with Joker 2.
Agree on Vermiglio. Loved every shot and the characters look like they don't know what Google is, which is rare in period movies recently.
Ale Alejandro & Everyone -- I hear what you're saying and I've often felt that this categorization of haters being trolls is problematic but then I know most people do this on occasion (I HAVE TOO AND BEEN CALLED OUT ON IT BY READERS) when they're on the pro side. I know you're not directly calling Eric racist but expressing that the reduction of the divide is problematic in this way but since Split Decision is all about two sides of the coin, I just want to remind everyone to be senstitive about allowing everyone to express their opinions freely.
But also Ale Alejandro what you say here "Always fascinating to hear these conversations and appreciate the different points of view, especially on diverging perspectives." -- i feel the same and I'm glad that's coming through. I love reading these and always finding I wish I could join every conversation :)
Juan Carlos -- this is a more than fair point. But, again, I'm just trying to find ways to be happy about the win that I know is coming ;)
Peggy Sue -- LOL.
Richter Scale & Sad Man -- i apologize. we probably should have talked it up more. It really is a superbly crafted movie. What I couldn't stomach was the relentlessness, but yes, that's reductive of me. You will see it score a couple of nods in the Film Bitch Awards :)
whunk -- voters have had access to it for a long time though. SPC pushes hard but in a much more invisible way than Netflix does, since they don't make their films readily available to the public. This tactic irks me but it tends to work fine with the industry (which is a bubble in terms of their access). I think everyone should access to see movies if they want to and I always wish the Oscars required wider releases to qualify.
Flow should have been nominated also in best picture. Period.
I don’t hate I’m still here. But I think that Fernanda Torres is the only memorable thing in the movie. It’s one of those products where the acting showcase is more important than the story.
Emilia Perez is #3 in my ranking of the best picture nominees after Wicked and The Substance. Personally I don’t consider it a musical. It’s soap opera/musical/thriller crazy french movie. I don’t have a problem with the 13 nominations, but I hate category fraud (and actors egoism) so much
I still have to see the other two nominees, but I have a really great hype for the Sacred Fig. Let’s just remember in which conditions this movie was realized. Like Jafar Panahi movies this is Cinema that really still matters.
@ NATHANIEL R: Ehhh, we'll see about that come Oscar night. There's one film that could stop the madness. ;)
And if it doesn't, oh well.... I've seen worse winners.
My ranking
1. Seed of the Sacred Fig
2. The Girl with the Needle
3. Flow
4. I'm Still Here
5. Emilia Perez
re: Sony Classics
I actually think that SPC has lost gettable nominations A LOT. It seems churlish to complain given that I'm Still Here got the best picture nomination, but if I was a filmmaker, I'd be hoping for Fox Searchlight or A24 or Neon over them every day of the week.
I just saw Vermiglio at my local independent. Sad that it missed this category. Such a beautiful film. Just wow.