Into The... Trainwreck?
Saturday, April 27, 2013 at 1:00PM 
For those of you who've had the pleasure of seeing Stephen Sondheim's classic Into the Woods (1986) on stage, you know that, like most of the great composer's once-prolific oeuvre, it is very particularly a Work of Theater. Some artists' skill sets transfer easily between stage, screen, television and literature and so on but others do not. Certain geniuses are so tied to a particular medium they become it; Stephen Sondheim IS Musical Theater.
But musical theater is different from musical cinema. Naturally compromises will have to be made. The person doing the new compromising is Rob Marshall who Hollywood is still giving the musicals to, presumably because of the huge success of Chicago (2002) and not the floppery of Nine (2009). So yes, compromises must be made... but they do not have to be made in casting. Many star actors -- if you're forced to cast that way -- have great singing voices. Les Misérables may have botched its casting of Javert (Ugh. Russell Crowe) but elsewhere Tom Hooper seemed to understand that beautiful melodic musical-friendly trained voices were required and could be found in big stars (Hathaway, Hackman, Seyfried) and rising ones (Tveit & Redmayne) and he cast accordingly... except for that bit about letting Helena Bonham-Carter "sing" again post-Sweeney Todd.
Unfortunately Hollywood loves to repeat its mistakes and somehow Sweeney Todd did NOT result in Johnny Depp and Helena Bonham-Carter being lifetime banned from future musicals ...
Yes, they're both good actors and Sweeney Todd was a strong adaptation in some ways. But herein likes the catch: they are not good singers and the music, the property's main-selling point, was deeply compromised as a result.
But I'm getting ahead of myself. This recently in: Johnny Depp is in talks to co-star in Into the Woods. Whether this is because Johnny Depp is deeply deeply averse to stretching these days (notice how he just won't work with anyone but his previous directors now?) or the money people are trusting that they need him (really? then where were Sweeney's blockbuster profits?) we can't know.
I was willing to put aside my small "of course!" frustration that Meryl Streep was the defacto choice for the "star" role (if not the lead) in Into the Woods because she is both a fine actress AND a fine singer. You need both no matter what Hollywood claims and I'm sure she will be great even though the role is typically cast for "Sexy Diva" which is not totally Meryl's thing. But I am not at all okay with the choice of Johnny Depp as either "The Wolf" or "The Baker" (initial reports seem to disagree on who he will be playing) and it's reminding me -- at least the Wolf rumor -- of when Rob Marshall cast Daniel Day-Lewis in Nine. You see, both roles require sexual potency and though DDL & Depp are true movie stars, neither has a particularly sexual screen persona and both often come across as actively asexual in their interpretations. There's nothing wrong with that UNLESS IT'S WRONG FOR THE ROLE. Second, they can't sing. Yes, I know Depp won an Oscar nomination for Sweeney Todd but he does not have even a strong character-actor style singing voice. He shouted /growled most of his Sweeney Todd songs and Sondheim's complex musical composition lost out. Try this experiment if you aren't convinced: Play one Depp song from the soundtrack and IMMEDIATELY chase it with Michael Cerveris doing the same song in the Broadway revival recording. I tried this once trying to figure out why some people experiencing Sweeney Todd for the first time at the movies didn't like the songs and it became abundantly clear. The same exact song, with Cerveris voice, suddenly springs to life with nuance, complicated melody and character defining flourishes. I had tears in my eyes by the time the song ended for the second time; it had never been more obvious to my ears why classic songs deserve strong voices.
I only pray that Depp has the Wolf role rather than The Baker because the former is much showier and smaller and not subtle and narrative-carrying. The Wolf would have a better chance of capitalizing on Depp's gifts and less of a chance of ruining the movie as a whole since if there's anything Depp is bad at these days it's coming across as "regular human" and The Baker and his wife are the civilian-sized soul of this musical.
But I digress. Back to the point: Musicals need good singing. This just seems like an obvious truth. It's my broken record, I know, but I'll just have to keep playing it until Hollywood stops trying to drown me out with their own tuneless sing-alongs.
Reader Comments (56)
I have no hope for this adaptation after hearing the announcements of the first two casting choices. None. The problem is that Hollywood keeps trying to make musical films for people who don't like musicals, so the studios continue to fill the movies with people whom they hope will be box-office draws instead of more appropriate choices. News flash: folks who don't like musicals are not gonna like musicals no matter who you put in them. Period. Therefore, make them for people who actually do, which means casting talented actor-singers who are right for the roles despite their popularity.
Depp is in talks for the movie and so is Patrick Wilson so who knows how the
baker will be cast.
If a stage musical wants a large audience to show up for the film adaptation they do need big names. I was able to accept Streep's casting easily but when I read about Depp my interest in seeing the film dropped by about oh...80%.
I actually disagree with you here, Depp is by faaaar not my ideal choice for either roles but I think him as the Wolf is hardly terrible casting especially since it's a while we've seen him play unassuming and pliant and I hate to invoke the memory of "Finding Neverland" which so many hate but I'd not be averse to seeing him in that register. I think it would be wiser having Depp play an everyman than having him play the Wolf - which is such an obvious crazy Depp persona and would encourage him to do no stretching. (Also, if he's playing the Wolf, wouldn't he be playing Cinderella's Prince too which is....unnerving.)
Of course, ideally both he and Streep would not be considered for the roles of The Baker of the Witch but even as Streep is of course a better actor Depp as The Baker > Streep as The Witch for me.
(Also, I still think he sings fine - not excellent, but more than acceptable.)
The same exact song, with Cerveris voice, suddenly springs to life with nuance, complicated melody and character defining flourishes. I had tears in my eyes by the time the song ended
that's odd, i had tears in my eyes when i heard johnny depp...
Sigh. Even if I don't think Day-Lewis projects asexuality (certainly not in the 80s, anyway), Depp is so utterly wrong for this movie it's ridiculous.
As a Bollywood consumer, I don't get why stars can't just sing along/mime singing and have background trained singers.
This project was doomed from the moment Meryl Streep was cast.
I cannot agree with you more!! And Troy and Lynn - I sign off on your every word, as well.
The saddest thing is I expected more from Rob Marshall, a theater performer himself (he was even Donna Murphy's dance partner in a show - yes, Donna Murphy, who played the Witch so brilliantly this past summer and did the reading and SHOULD have been cast for this film UGH). I had hoped he had seen the error of his ways after ruining NINE (again, if you want to cry, listen to "Unusual Way" sung by Laura Bentanti from the last revival and see what a mess it was in the movie instead of the gorgeous song that it really is - sorry, Nicole Kidman).
This is one of my top 5 musicals but I am really not sure I will even go see it with these casting choices.
I wish them the best. In a perfect world you have Johnny Depp and Meryl Streep together in the same film, so this is fantastic. I hope they make a great movie.
Nathaniel, how could you talk about good singing in Les Miz and not mention Samantha Barks?
I don't get how DDL is supposedly asexual. Unbearable Lightness, The Age of innocence, Mohicans... how can you get more sexually charismatic on screen than that? If you are judging based on past few roles, remember how short his filmography is.
Even Meryl isn't that great for this. She was a pretty good singer at one point, but if Mamma Mia is any indication of where her voice is now, she really shouldn't be singing Sondheim. But still, it's Meryl and she pulls off nearly anything so I was okay with it.
Johnny Depp though? What a damn joke.
Also, people need to stop acting like Anne Hathaway has this amazing voice because she really doesn't lol. Like, it's not BAD, but it's only decent. And this has nothing to do with ~*Anne hate*~ because I felt this way from the moment I saw the first Les Mis trailer. Her voice is kinda weak. I would blame the live-emotionally-charged singing, but Hugh Jackman did the same thing and sounded great.
I find it peculiar that the Meryl hate seems to be growing. Nowadays, every
role she takes on is "a casting fiasco" and the film is "doomed to failure.."
All I can say is --- Meryl, you go girl; grab that 4th OSCAR!
DDL reads as asexual. My Beautiful Laundrette and The Unbearable Lightness of Being would like a word.
My issue is Rob Marshall. But he apparently is popular with his cast. Even after Nine being hitting a major thud in the industry Cruz and Cotillard spoke highly of him (Cruz not passing up a paycheck to be in Pirates 4 eithher). That said, he ain't Bob Fosse in direction. Chicago is perfectly fine but when I think of Joe Wright's Anna Karenina (that I like but not love) I think that movie did better than anything Rob Marshall ever attempted to do with musicals.
And since this is a Joe Wright safe-space, why can he not direct a musical? I know the My Fair Lady rumors of development are out there (and frankly, the overrated Cukor picture is not infallible to me so he can have at it) but given the storybook imagery he provides in the exteriors like Hanna, a musical like Into the Woods seems like a much better more interesting fit because at least when Wright swings it is a home run swing.
I totally agree with you, Philip H. Anne Hathaway, whom I love, has a decent but hardly spectacular singing voice. What she was able to do, brilliantly, in Les Miz is convey a powerhouse of emotional urgency and vulnerability that a truly gifted singer like, say, Jennifer Hudson (Oscar be damned) just can't.
It's a shame that movie musicals, when they do get made, nearly always occur within the studio system that likely doesn't even consider (nevermind let audition) the likes of Donna Murphy, Michael Cerveris or, speaking of stage-screen stars, Vanessa Williams. I would welcome independent musical cinema productions, althought the rights to a Sondheim musical are probably cost prohibitive for most independent financiers.
Great article and great comments. I especially agree with Troy, Lynn, and CMG. It would be wonderful to see a Streep-less, Depp-less musical of Into The Woods directed with visual panache by Joe Wright.
And starring Broadway vets with great voices who right for the part. I don't have to know who the actors are before going to see it. I'd never seen Aaron Tveit before, but liked him and wanted to see more of him.
I knew you'd be angry! At this point I thought Sondheim would have claimed cast approval. I would. Even if that means less paycheck.
I didn't see any of the Broadway editions of 'Into The Woods', but did catch it A Delacorte in Central Park last year with Amy Adams as the Baker's wife. Would love for her to reprise that for the screen. Yeah, I know she's got mixed reviews but to hear her sing again... C'mon, casting gods.
Philip H. & Mareko, Anne Hathaway has a wonderful voice. She is a soprano, but she doesn't like to do a lot of vocal gymnastics and vocal runs ( I am not crazy about it either ) . I first noticed, she could sing, when Anne voiced the character of Princess Penelope on an episode of The Simpsons. On The Simpsons, Hathaway was hitting Maria Callas high notes, and her acoustic version of Moon River was to die for ( Audrey Hepburn would be jealous ) . I was also impressed with Anne's voice acting. I didn't realize it was Anne Hathaway, until the credits rolled.
Rob Marshall is a terrible director (except for Chicago). I'd love to see a real director trying his hand at a musical, like Scorsese, Friedkin (he's tried some opera) or Coppola. Stage and film are different things. You don't have to hire a director because he comes from Broadway. Give the job to somebody who understands movies, and not this Shankmans and Susan Strohmans and Marshalls.
One more thing. sometimes you have to cut the music totally, like Wilder's Irma La Douce. Tim Burton's Sweeney Todd would be a much better movie without the music. This Musical Theather grandiloquancy doesn't always translate fine to movies. Music for movie musicals must be more understated, more low-key, more jazzy. And people must dance. It's a hard sit to see people sing only ballads for 120 minutes.
I love musicals, but I wish they were more like Gene Kelly / Fred Astaire coolness instead of this post-60's unbearable screaming.
I agree on the dancing. This Is a movie by Disney and they want the maximum revenue possible. That means the most popular movie stars of this era get the roles.
I continue to chuckle that Disney is producing this when this particular stage musical is about as Un-Disney as you can get. I can just see parents bringing their young kids to see Cinderella and Rapunzel and all these fairy tale characters and being absolutely shell-shocked and disturbed when they all start dropping one by one. Hehe. That is, if Disney doesn't sanitize the darkness and macabre nature of this musical...I'm more concerned about that than the casting.
I don't think Meryl has a bad voice, although I do find her casting a bit odd...isn't she a little too old for the part? I think someone like Catherine Zeta-Jones would've been a stronger choice, and she is still an indisputable movie star even if she is not even remotely in the same league as Meryl.
Will people never forgive Meryl Streep for Mama Mia?
"this is because Johnny Depp is deeply deeply averse to stretching these days (notice how he just won't work with anyone but his previous directors now?)"
Did he worked with wally pifster and lavy pevinson before? He didn't worked with the directors of the rum diary and the tourist and public enemies before or after
Mamma Mia! was a cash cow. Not my cup of tea but it made millions and millions and is watched daily by young kids. Who can resist working with Streep? Sondheim chose her over Bernadette Peters. That has got to smart. Surprised Meryl has not yet been stabbed in the back by original Broadway cast members. But she is the best. Zeta-Jones is no Meryl. Streep elevates every project with the public and the Academy.
CMG -- it's not that DDL is never sexual onscreen -- he's very sexy in Mohicans and very sexual in Laundrette... but those were ages ago. I didn't get one whiff of sex from him in Nine which is a VERY BIG PROBLEM considering the source material and the character he's playing.
Parker -- but the most popular stars does not automatically equal the most revenue. It just means the chances are better for a strong opening weekend. I think when you cast solely on name value you can really hurt a movie's quality and quality will out in the long run. Also once you've added a few stars anything else is like overkill. People were very excited about Aaron Tveit in Les Miz but most of them didn't know who he was before hand. The movies really need to take more chances on lesser known stars.
everyone -- don't talk to me about anne hathaway not having a good voice. WHAT? if all you've heard is les miz and it turned you off for some reason, listen to some of her other performances. the voice
peggy sue -- from my understanding Sondheim does have cast approval. But he is hardly infallible. I mean he gives a lot of things his blessing that he probably shouldn't. I'm still horrified that everyone signed off on helena bonham carter as mrs lovett (she did "act" the role well, yes) when actual super talented actress/singers auditioned. it breaks my heart the lack of respect people get when they have both talents and they're passed over for people with fewer.
Toni F'in Collette is still waiting for a movie musical and she can sing, act, and dance circles around a lot of women. Plus she's famous. ugh.
That's show biz! :)
May I just add, from far far away that I thought Russell Crowe was just fine with a mellow convicted baritone in Les Mis' but Hugh I found unbearable; whiny and nasal. Meryl's version of The Winner Takes It All in the film (not the speak-sing on the cd soundtrack) was fantastic. Contentious? Maybe? Let's shake up some of the love-fests going on here. x
Oops…"conflicted" I am sorry.
Patrick Wilson would be terrific as the Baker. He is a GIFTED musical theater performer with a STUNNING voice, who can also play the everyman.
Hi! I've been reading your site for about four years and till now I have only been a very quiet follower. I think I have never written any comment (yeah, I am ashamed, but very lazy and I'll try to change it for the future), but this article just forced me into some feedback.
I really love Sweeney Todd and both Depp and Carter belong to my favorite actors. (Just as Burton belongs to my favorite directors and Sondheim belongs to my favorite composers.) This film touched me very very deeply (maybe because I'm from Europe and therefore I haven't seen it at the theatre). You may think I'm insane or something like that, but the reason for this is exactly the fact that the actors weren't great singers.
I'm an actor myself (unprofessional) and I have this opinion: if you're a singer, you should sing the songs perfectly, but if you're a musical actors the main thing you should do is to ACT. You really should act throughout the songs. It doesn't matter that your timing wasn't clear, or that you didn't hit every note, as long, as you did it because of the acting. That's the reason why Meryl Streep's songs worked so well in Mamma Mia!, or Les Misérables worked perfectly (for me even Crowe's singing wasn't a pain in the ass, I didn't care he couldn't sing, I cared that he didn't played that character very well).
Take for instance the musical Rent. It is sung excellently, but it has never touched me as much, as Sweeney Todd, or Moulin Rouge! have.
So therefore I'm extremely happy Streep and Depp are going to star in Into the Woods. I'm sure it's going to be perfect and I can't wait to see it. I'm convinced that they're gonna be flawless, just as they have been in their previous musical performances.
What bothers me much more is the fact that Keira Knightley is going to play Eliza in My Fair Lady-remake, or that Joseph Gordon-Levitt and Channing Tatum are going to be in Guys and Dolls-remake. I think they're much worse miscasts than Depp is.
Thank you very much...
For all those not sure of Streep watch this video of her singing which proves to me she could play the role and I cannot wait to see her rap especially:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUSFRF1Pppo
Eoin -- i dont know if anyone is questioning Meryl's acting/singing ability. or if they are they're not being reasonable because she's great at both. But it's just a matter of whether she's ideal for the role. I would'a gone with someone more sexy diva like like Donna Murphy, Bernadette, Michelle Pfeiffer or, maybe CZJ (though her acting has been lately so maybe not).
richard -- word.
Everyone -- I guess my thing with Streep is since i love her so much i WANT to be excited for her movies but the ubiquity has killed it for me. She's like the McDonalds of Actresses now. Everyone goes there and instinctively wants it through decades of comfort-food familiarity... but it isn't *always* what you should be eating.
Tortured analogy alert!
I guess i just dont understand why everyone always wants her to star in everything. I don't even want pfeiffer to star in everything... and I never have despite being completely and perhaps unhealthily obsessed with her! Where is the sense of adventure in moviegoers. It's not supposed to be like TV where it's only the excessively familiar you get and you hang out with the same friends each week. It's supposed to be a different experience each time. I like seeing a mix of faces when I go to the movies.
Hopefully, now that Depp and Streep are cast now they can cast the rest with Broadway stars? Getting the Depp and Streep fan base to see the movie is huge. Shockingly, there are many out there that do not even know what Into the Woods is even about! ( my mother...)
And as far as Streep being cast again with the huge outcrys....whatever. Was Hollywood ever about casting the right person for the right role? ?? Or is it just any role now that Streep accepts and takes away. She has earned her success just as much as McDonald's! :)
People who don't like musicals won't go just because Meryl and Johnny are in it and if they do it will be just for the pleasure to butcher it afterwards. Leave the genre to the ones who love it. I know it may sound elitist, but I just don't care. I want Donna Murphy!
Michelle's under the radar in her excellence—In Dangerous Liaisons she takes a stock character and does not waste the opportunity to make her a fully realized creation. I may not care to join the chorus to praise her in Baker Boys but, she continues to shock me in lesser appreciated works: Liaisons and Frankie and Johnny.
Any part that can be given to a woman should be offered to Pfeiffer first. Her beauty does not stop me from seeing her as a potential threat. She has a casual execution to performance. When her character shows no signs of who they might become later in the narrative, she plays them completely straight until the natural transition occurs.
Streep as a brand ruins everything. Her brand perpetuates a lie. Do not confuse being the greatest charlatan with film acting. I am grateful that people are turning the page on Streep and recognizing she is very fallible.
Michelle Pfeiffer has not connected with movie audiences in a long time. You can't put her in anything and hope for the best.
Streep will sing the witch just fine, but she is not right to play the character. The witch has to have a sexual quality that makes you stir in your seat when you see her. You have to want her to have her way with you and be scared that she will at the same time. Peters and Williams both did this on stage beautifully. Halle Berry could pull this off. Theron (I can't believe I am mentioning her) has that quality, Audra McDonald, even Salma Hayek (remember her entrance in From Dusk Till Dawn?) would be better as far as the character. Just as Streep could never play Rosa Parks, she can't play the witch. Young Bardot is the goal--not Liz Taylor in Virginia Wolf. Now Streep would have played and sung Mrs. Lovett out the roof.
Depp just isn't physically powerful or sexy enough to play the wolf (he wasn't to play Sweeney either), I would rather see him as the Baker although Patrick Wilson is an excellent choice if too handsome. The Baker needs to be PSHoffman plain and dumpy. Amy Adams is a good choice for the Baker's wife. I want to see Anna Ferris as Cinderella and Josh Hartnett as Jack. Miriam Margolyes as Jack's mother would be a hoot.
But the Wolf needs to be handsome, charming, dangerous, powerful (he eats people) and sexy as hell. Bardem is still my first choice, Tom Hardy, Jeffrey Dean Morgan, Karl Urban, Shemar Moore, young Charles Dance, young Antonio Banderas (although he could come close now), Dominik Cooper.....Vincent Cassel, Samuel Le Bihan, Jason Clarke.....There are so many better choices.
And as for Mama Mia--Dominik and Amanda were introduced to the world and that makes it worth it.
Bede NZ, I feel the same way about Hugh Jackman's voice -- nails on a chalkboard. I guess we're in the minority.
In a perfect world I would love to see Sara Ramirez as The Witch, though I know it would never happen on the silver screen. Maybe in another stage revival.
Meryl is not sexy enough, she tastes like McDonalds, and she is a charlatan. Disney better burn that witch at the stake!
You are all in for a rude awakening when Streep fever takes hold during awards season for August :Osage County.
And may I ask- what recent movie musical has been cast successfully with the right singers and actors???
About Streep's casting I think people just find it easy to bitch about her lately, first the thing about her being cast in everything doesn't even make sense to me because the woman has been doing one movie per year, so how is thay "too much"?
And about wheter or not she's sexy enough people probably understimate streeps talents, first I think she is a gorgeous woman and think of her as a chamaleon who just has never played the 'sexy card' to do her job and just as when the devil wears prada was announced and I didn't think of her as fashionista enough to play the role and she shut me up with her performance, I think she'll do exactly the same with this role.
I agree with moviefilm that I don't mind if film actors can sing well as long as they can emote. Stage actors? Well, that's a different story, but I somehow find weak, untrained, voices very moving in film. That said? Johnny Depp needs to seriously think his career choices. He's all wrong for this.
The witch needs to be beautiful, not necessarily sexy. You know who played the witch in London? Julia McKenzie. I find Streep's casting typical and unimaginative, but not necessarily wrong.
re: Streep as MacDonalds
Wow. What a poor metaphor.
Well you could always go for James Franco- can he sing? In the classic studio days they would cast the star that was right looks for the role and then get somebody else to provide the voice.
"Nine" failed because Daniel Day Lewis is a good actor but at least in that movie lacked the charm or sex appeal to pull if off. Will Anne Hathway play Cinderella ?
I think the problem also lies with (I'm loathe to admit it) Sondheim, who can be very starstruck to the detriment of his material. His love for Catherine Zeta Jones was baffling considering she did NOTHING he intended for "Send in the Clowns."
Johnny Depp would be a horrible Baker. The character is a bit of a nebbish. I think Ewan MacGregor, although cute, can play that kind of role. I also hear Reece Witherspoon is in discussion to play the Baker's Wife, which is okay . . . but I think that character needs to be zanier. I'd go with Maya Rudolph, Nina Arianda, Laura Benanti, or Kristen Wiig (can she sing?).
I could be okay with Meryl as the Witch, but I think Donna Murphy would have been better. Or Audra. Audra would have been the best.
Is Anna Kendrick still in the running for Cinderella? Although I would have wanted someone more ingenue like like Anne Hathaway, at least Kendrick will understand Sondheim.
Rob Marshall is an idiot and a hack. For all the flack people gave Les Miz, Tom Hooper managed to convey the HEART of Les Miz on screen. I don't think Chicago's that great (too much editing) and Memoirs of a Geisha and Nine were horrible. HORRIBLE.
This movie is going to be a big nasty horrible bomb that will not do justice to one of the greatest musical theater composers (if not the greatest) who ever lived.
Jamie -- how would Streep Awards Fever for August: Osage County be a rude awakening for ANYONE who is human and cognizant of awards? That's a no brainer ;) August: Osage County is an awards magnet and so is Streep. Like Doubt, Oscar nominations are a given no matter how good mediocre bad or great the film is.
I was simply commenting that if Streep Haters are gonna hate about a project that has not even started filming... These boards are just going to get worse come awards season.
Can we once and for all dispel this notion that anyone who doesn't want to see Streep gift-wrapped every major role for actresses of a certain age are automatically haters? Haters are those who read with no resume and critique with no credentials -- and I have both. :-)