Q&A Part 1: Avatar the Musical (Not Really) & Instant Classics
Monday, April 13, 2015 at 6:30PM For this week's "Ask Nathaniel" party, I asked people to be inspired by the theater (Tony season is upon us) or by the science fiction genre. I promised 10 questions. 10 answers but that's too long. So here's part one of two: 4 questions today. 6 on Wednesday. here we go...
I started drawing myself as a Na'vi but got bored when I realized my lack of hair meant I couldn't ride dragons. Unfinished.STEVE: Do have fear that the million Avatar sequels that will happen will ruin the magic of the original for you?
NATHANIEL: I love Avatar but it will ruin itself. Technological breakthroughs rarely age well because there's always another technological breakthrough around the corner to make the previous one look antique. The exception is something like Star Wars because its success wasn't really about how "new" it looked. In fact, it was successful because it was so good at being an old thing (adventure serial) and using old techniques in improved new ways like models and matte paintings and whatnot. I think it's quite funny that the upgrades when they "fixed" the Star Wars trilogy later on actually made them seem less timeless. Computerized Jabba the Hut for example totally places you in the exact moment of when CGI looked like that. Puppet Jabba is forever.
Plus will those three Avatar sequels actually happen despite the current plans? James Cameron has only made two films in the past 20 years and he's already 60 years old. I realize he's planning to shoot them simultaneously but if he weren't he'd be wrap up a full Avatar quadrilogy in 2044 or so and then retire and/or die at 90.
JAMES: What witches do you think Meryl Streep was offered when she turned 40?
OMG I LOVE THIS QUESTION. I have ignorantly never questioned this despite the fact that Meryl Streep has been quoted about this a few times. [More...]
If Streep meant it literally we have to assume it was The Grand High Witch from The Witches (1990). Meryl Streep was 40 years old that year. But would we want to live in a world without Angelica Huston's performance: HELL, NO. If she meant it more figuratively, maybe Annie Wilkes in Misery (1990) which sparks the same don't rewrite history outrage for anyone who saw Bates's work. (If readers want to know why I sometimes would like to see other people in Streep's roles these examples are exactly why. When Streep wasn't getting all the roles other actresses also had ample opportunities to kill it -- and we still, also, had Streep so everyone won!)
Which other witchy characters do you think? ANY IDEAS, READERS? The early 90s were essentially the Streep backlash period so chances are she didn't have the literal "first pick" of all scripts the way she does now so it's tough to say. She had reigned over 80s cinema so thoroughly that the backlash was obvious. And people were downright nasty about her around the time she turned 40, partially because her movies were declining as box office draws and partially because she was so vocal about pay inequality in the movie industry (her reaction to Patty Arquette's Oscar speech was not the least bit surprising if you lived through 1990). I remember some magazines belittling her 'poor Meryl Streep with her millions.' She's so dependably bankable now that it's weird to remember that The Devil Wears Prada was her first true blockbuster in 20 years, the last one being 1985's Out of Africa).
But speaking of witches -- congrats to Meryl on winning her first MTV Award.
MR GOODBAR: Have you been able to accurately deem a movie an instant classic? If so, based on what were you able to make that assessment?
I don't believe in the term "instant classic" since a classic is something that has withstood the test of time, but the most I've ever felt that prophetic feeling in-the-moment was with Moulin Rouge! and Brokeback Mountain. I'll tell you one classic I DIDN'T see coming even though I loved it at the time: Mean Girls (2004). I thought it owed too much to Heathers (it does owe a lot - watch them back to back and be stunned) to stand up over the long haul. But boy did that movie hold up over the past ten years. No, it didn't just hold up, it grew. It's now far more widely beloved than any other 2004 picture (outside of arguably Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind) including Oscar's Best Picture nominees that year. It's worth noting that those Best Picture nominees were NOT unpopular (as people so often accuse BPs of being). In fact most of them made the equivalent of or more money than Mean Girls in initial release (Ray & Sideways were nearly as popular as Tina Fey's comedy... and The Aviator and Million Dollar Baby were bigger grossers still).
As to why? Maybe the classics give us some intangible we can't be without and that we know we can't really get anywhere else. But even that's not a failsafe test since Mean Girls is derivative and it's hardly the only one. Maybe movies that are resolutely themselves (like the two I mentioned above) provide a shortcut to our possessive "I discovered this treasure" mental synapses?
QUESTION OF THE WEEK
Combining our themes!
FADHIL: Which sci-fi movie would you like adapted for the stage?
Obviously space operas, which are closer to fantasies than sci-fi wouldn't work so well (visual effects being hard to pull off) but science fiction and the stage are both ideal soil for allegorical work so I bet Solaris (1972/2002) would make a pretty great stage play. Primer and Moon could work on stage like gangbusters if you could figure out how to double your stars or stage them correctly. But for my answer I'm going to go with Contact (1997) which is undervalued and a great acting showcase. Make the first act your build up and after intermission, Dr Ellie Arroway's fantastic voyage becomes something like an abstract one woman show. I can see it now and I am loving it, crying, and hoping it wins all the Tonys.
Fadhil can choose the next banner theme since I'm tired of "stars as photographers"
Tomorrow we'll answer six more questions but now it's your turn to sound off on these ones. Which witches? And have you ever spotted a classic coming instantly?
Reader Comments (19)
Avatar looking good? I could easily name five relatively contemporaneous (the year before to the year after) AAA VIDEO GAMES that look far better than Avatar in 2D, let alone naming five similarly contemporaneous VFX driven movies.
Games:
Bayonetta
Vanquish
Batman: Arkham Asylum
Dragon Age: Origins
Assassins Creed II
Movies:
Where the Wild Things Are
District 9
Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince
Star Trek
Watchmen
Spotted as instant classics: lots of movies seen in the 1970s. More recently: the Toy Story series, Matrix, Stories We Tell, The Ice Storm, Precious.
oh yay! thank you Nathaniel hahaha.
How can I contact you? or should I spring the banner idea here?
Movies that seemed like "classics" when I first saw them when they were released:
Annie Hall, Chinatown, Nashville, All That Jazz - 70's
Tootsie, Silkwood, Alien, and Blade Runner - 80's
Thelma & Louise, Pulp Fiction, The English Patient - 90's
Atonement, Gosford Park, Shaun of the Dead -2000's
Everyone's definition of a classic is slightly different - but if I immediately want to see the film again, and take friends or relatives with me -that's significant. That missionary zeal to share the experience is the most telling characteristic for me. Then you have to wait 10 years or so and see if it still stands up.
Fact: for many years, I thought that Contact the film had already been adapted into a musical, not realizing that the Susan Stroman-directed Contact was a very different beast. It always did seem to me like a surprising choice to adapt...
Ironically, Anjelica was also offered Misery -- turned it down for Grifters. It's hard to imagine Anjelica being in league with Bates and Streep at one point since she seems to not get the same respect these days.
Volvagia - I am not much familiar with video games, but I have seen all the movies you listed on several occasions. They are all visually spectacular, and their effects out of this world, but I think Avatar still blows them all out of the water.
Bia, but she was on Smash! ;-)
All this talk of Meryl as a witch has me wondering what life would have been like with her in Hocus Pocus.
First off, the Contact idea is brilliant. I can see how they can use the new technology they have in theater to create an incredible experience, maybe even including the audience in the lighting somehow or give it a planetarium experience feel to it. Then, Lauren Ambrose would play Ellie. Or Jodie Foster herself. I do think Contact is very undervalued. It is rich in content, bold and complex in presenting its themes, for instance the atheism plot point, which is an anomaly in high profile movies such as this one, as well as the actively sexual priest, which was a concept I found both novel and exciting (add Priest to the equation and you have a perfect mid-90's double feature).
It's funny, when I asked the question, I expected Eternal Sunshine to pop up somewhere. Even though I asked the question I realized I actually prefer the cult classics much more than the classic classics. I would say Pul Fiction was the first movie I felt that way at 14 years of age. Since then, probably Schindler's List, Titanic, The lord of the RIngs Trilogy, Boogie NIghts, Fight Club, The Matrix, Children of Men. Sometimes it takes one view, sometimes it takes ten years. I guess as you said, the more authentic and truthful to their concept, the better the chances to achieve that status. I do think Mean Girls falls into the "cult classic" category, though.
Anjelica Houston's portrayal is my all time favorite witch. It is so fully realized from the physical transformation to her speech pattern when she becomes a witch. At no point does the grotesque makeup feel fake. I loved that they kept her eyeshadow and lipstick intact when she transformed into a witch.
Side note: I love that Houston and Bates get a mention instead of the usual suspects. Can we all please stop pitting Streep against Lange, Spacek, Sarandon, Field and Close? Because all of these actresses have had envious careers spanning multiple decades and media, full of accolades and multimillion dollar salaries. We should be championing the likes of Kathleen Turner (never got her proper due in her prime), Alfre Woodard (TV awards magnet who should have been a multiple Oscar nominee), Houston (where is her career revival?), Bates (I am afraid some people feel that a lead actress Oscar is more than what she deserved in the first place), Viola Davis (still waiting for her Dead Man Walking/In the Bedroom/Norma Rae), Angela Bassett (talk about being completely ignored despite her talent).
fadhil -- you can write me at filmexperience (at) gmail (dot) com
Recently when discussing The Witches, Huston revealed that her understanding of The Grand High Witch is---she's playing Hitler.
Rob Reiner previously directed Huston in a cameo for his debut feature This Is Spinal Tap. Of course she was now an Oscar winner when he offers her a juicy part.
Kathy Bates impressed Stephen King so much he wrote Dolores Claiborne for the purpose of it being adapted as vehicle for her as the title character.
Steve: Different strokes I guess, but rewatching it recently I saw that scene with Jake trying to keep the forest animals away and they were rendered with this bizarre plastic CG that stopped my attempt at a rewatch in it's tracks.
Your daily reminder that Meryl Streep is now an MTV Movie Award winner. *gg*
(Sorry Nat, I just HAD to!)
It's always interesting to read for what part actors and actresses were considered but turned it down in the end.
All I can say is that I'm glad Kathy Bates played Annie Wilks. She was simply great and it's one of my favorite BA wins ever.
But I'm sure Meryl meant "real" witches like The Witches, Hocus Pocus or The Witches of Eastwick instead of just "witchy" characters.
I remember seeing Queen Margot back in the day and thinking it would come to be regarded as a classic. 21 years later and it has held up beautifully, IMO.
LadyEdith -- wow. you were very prescient then because people HATED Blade Runner when it first came out.
i think the one that surprised me most was THE BIG LEBOWSKI. I remember people being so audibly disappointed when it first came out on the heels of Fargo. And now look at the love for it
It's interesting who is offered parts, but I always defer to the actor that ends up getting the part. He or she ends up doing the work, so talking about the fact that you were maybe offered a big part at one time (Barbra) is just ego. Streep at least has acknowledged others ended up being better for a role, and that there was nothing that she could add to Prime Suspect (because Mirren did such a great job). Bloodlines is a great show. Great to see Sissy Spacek and Sam Shepherd, and all the actors are good.
Nathaniel: I don't think I was unusually prescient about "Blade Runner" - it wasn't a hit but the 10-15 people who saw it in the cinema with me seemed impressed as well. The set design was fascinating and I didn't even mind the narration. :)
done. I've sent the email!